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PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 No Custom? Or No Argument?

1Cr 11:16

KJV But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

NASB But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.

NLT But if anyone wants to argue about this, all I can say is that we have no other custom than this, and all the churches of God feel the same way about it.

Why would there be such a huge difference? I ran into one guy that said that coverings for women are mandatory. He said that it should be translated as the latter version. I fairly sure there are more versions that agree with the last one but I could not find them.

These seem to be in complete contradiction.


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Josh Parsley

 2006/2/24 11:35Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re: No Custom? Or No Argument?

The Message 16I hope you're not going to be argumentative about this. All God's churches see it this way; I don't want you standing out as an exception.

AMP 16Now if anyone is disposed to be argumentative and contentious about this, we hold to and recognize no other custom [in worship] than this, nor do the churches of God generally.

CEV (Contemp. English) 16This is how things are done in all of God's churches, [a] and that's why none of you should argue about what I have said.

NLV (New Life Version) 16If anyone wants to argue about this, my answer is that this is what we teach, and all the churches agree with me.

Of course there are many that agree with the KJV and NASB rendering but I just wanted to post more of these.


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Josh Parsley

 2006/2/24 11:50Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
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 Re:

I just wanted to bump this back up. No one has an explanation?


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Josh Parsley

 2006/2/25 10:44Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Jessie Peen Lewis did a wornderful treatment of this passage in "The Magna Carta of Women".

In it she put's forth the interpretation that in these passages Paul is addressing a question put forth by the Corinthians in a letter they had written to Paul.

In those days and especially in Corinth, for a woman to unveil in public was a public shame to her husband. She was considered as a temple prostitute who would unveil.

But for a man to veil was a dishoner to his Head which is Christ because the Tallith, or veil was a symbol of Condemnation. So for a man to veil was to dishoner Christ and His redemption.

Yet the believing women, who were experiencing the liberty which is in Christ by the Spirit saw no need to veil. They said in effect, 'We are in Christ, we are all on the same level, we have no need to veil". And so in the public gatherings when women would prophecy or pray unveiled, in their culture they were dishonering their head which is the husband in the eyes of outsiders.

Paul tells them that becuase the man is the head of the woman she should not dishoner her head, but rather she should veil (for his sake).

But the man should not veil because that was to dishoner Christ.

Yet at the close of this portion, he emphasises that it is not a matter of legality, and that there is no imposed custom in the churches. and that it should not be a matter of contention.

It is a matter not of doctrine but of custom. Not a custom of the church, but one of the culture and they should honer this for the sake of the reputation of the gospel.

It is also true in regard to woman "remaning silent and learning at home. It was not permitted for a woman to be "educated". So He told them the women who desired to learn, let them learn at home through their own husbands and not publically to bring the gospel in disrepute. Paul in saying this is not degradng women but elevating them saying, "let them learn at home", let them learn. But do so in a way that will not hinder the gospel or bring the church into disrepute.

If you were to push many's view to its conclusion, because the bible says that we should pray without ceasing, and that speaking Christ should be our normal living day to day, a woman should always be veiled. And men should never wear a hat.

Graftedbranch

 2006/2/25 11:12Profile









 Re: No Custom? Or No Argument?

Hi Preach,

Do you have e-sword downloaded.

11 Commentaries Pop-up when you click on this verse.

Hope this stays an ancient customs topic.
;-)

 2006/2/25 15:52
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Yes, I have e-sword. I don't believe that it is required for a woman to have a covering. I am just wondering how different translators could come up with contridicting translations. One seems to say, "If you have a problem with this don't worry about it, we don't have this custom everywhere." And then the other says, "Don't argue this is how it is done everywhere."


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Josh Parsley

 2006/2/27 9:45Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Does anyone know where I could find the answer to my question? It's not a life or death matter, I'm just very curious.


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Josh Parsley

 2006/2/28 15:25Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470
Mississippi

 Re: No Custom? Or No Argument?

I wondered when this isssue would surface on this forum....I do have a few points to make..

1. It is not in the nature of the scriptures to address a local issue resricticted to a limited time/culture.

2. All Christian women wore a head covering when praying or prophesying until the 20th century. If you will study Christian history you can easily see this. Even the pics of Christian women in the 19th century show them wearing a covering.

Why do women NOT want to wear it should be the greater question, IMHO. It is written in 1 Corintians along with all the other admonitions/corrections, why pick this one out among all the others to say it no longer is applicable?

EDIT: as I understand the verse you quoted - it means this is what we teach everywhere else and it is not a point we argue about!

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2006/3/1 22:57Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
2. All Christian women wore a head covering when praying or prophesying until the 20th century. If you will study Christian history you can easily see this. Even the pics of Christian women in the 19th century show them wearing a covering.



Had just come across this the other day, it may be of some interest to you. It's the second 'letter' down;

[url=http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/theremnant-January2006-letters.cfm]From an email [/url]


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Mike Balog

 2006/3/1 23:05Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470
Mississippi

 Re:

Mike,
I checked out this site and here is a quote:
"My wife has noticed that even ungodly people in the community treat her with a measure of reverence, tenderness and respect that she did not receive from people before. We can only contribute this to God’s blessings in obeying His commandments regarding headcovering, modesty and a meek and quiet spirit. It brings to mind the verse Jesus spoke to His disciples in John 14:21, He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. The word “manifest” means “to come to view”, “disclose” or “reveal”. I have indeed found this to be true. If we know what God has commanded us, even if we don’t understand it fully, he will reveal the reason and blessing of the commandment if we just bow our hearts to Him and obey. He will indeed give us understanding and revelation."

Brother, I can testify to the reality of this as well. :-)

Blessings,
ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2006/3/1 23:20Profile





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