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flyfishing
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Joined: 2004/2/11
Posts: 15


 Re:

Here are some examples of false predictions...

http://www.loriswebs.com/endtimeprophets/wilkerson.html

 2004/2/12 8:39Profile
jeremyhulsey
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Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re:

I've seen that sight, I've read that site, I also either own the sermons, or have the newsletters from which they gleaned their info. I can tell you with as much assurance as I told my ex-roommate(halleluiah) at college that David Wilkerson is grossly taken out of context on that site.

They emphasize that David said things will SOON(emphasis on soon was theirs and not Bro. Wilkerson's) take place and twisted that to mean that it had to be in the extreme near future. Using the same logic then, most of the prophecies of the Bible are to be taken as false. It spoke of things that would happen soon, and yet didn't take place for hundreds of years. (this is just one example)

You need to take the info you gain off of the net sometimes with a grain of salt and consider your sources.

In Christ,
Jeremy Hulsey


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2004/2/12 8:47Profile
flyfishing
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Joined: 2004/2/11
Posts: 15


 Re:

Yes setting a 5 yr time limit is taking someone out of context.

It is ok to blast creflo dollar and etc. but GOD forbid dont say anything against the holy cows of "the prophetic world"..

Wilkerson admits his own errors..

 2004/2/12 9:37Profile
jeremyhulsey
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Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re:

Quote:

flyfishing wrote:
Yes setting a 5 yr time limit is taking someone out of context.



Yes when they try to make the claim that he said the Spirit of God revealed it to him.

Quote:
From David Wilkerson's newsletter "In the Solomon Church" 12-19-94 (it can also be found at the following URL if you can read polish: http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/polish/ts941219.htm

"Right now I sense in my spirit that in less that 5 years there will be no more so-called gospel television networks. They will all fall into bankruptcy and absolute ruin.

Have all the gospel networks dissapeared from TV after 1999?
Have all the gospel networks fallen into bankruptcy and absolute ruin?
Was the "Spirit" speaking to him telling him the truth?



David did say this in his message. It's an excellent one that I would recomend to people to hear or read.

Now let's look at how Don Quiote twists his words. David said he sensed in "his" spirit (This would mean his own self. No mention of hearing from God or receiving a revelation.....hmmmm.) However, the last little question, and the trick question that she threw in was this, "Was the "Spirit" speaking to him telling him the truth?". This would be a valid argument had Bro. Wilkerson claimed to be hearing from the Spirit of God!

Now, since I happen to have that message--I save his newsletters he sends out, I will quote a segment of that message she definately did not want to talk about yet would have been much more inflamatory if she would have only used it.

Quote:
Two years before the PTL ministry fell, the Spirit of God came upon me and instructed me to write a long letter to Jim Bakker. I wrote, "In two years, by March 15, PTL will be dead." I described a vision of emptiness -- of weeds growing tall and bats nesting in the buildings.

Jim read the letter and called me, asking, "What must I do?" I told him first to get rid of all the homosexuals in his ministry. Yet, not long after that conversation, Jim appeared on television mocking every word I said. Two years later, to the very day, the Lord's word about PTL happened -- just as He had told me.



Notice that David is explicit in stating that God had revealed this to him. Why didn't she jump all over this statement. She could have brought about a firestorm of questions that could have seriously damaged the ministry of Bro. Wilkerson if she would have only exposed this obvious prophecy. Why didn't she do it? Because it happened just as David is reporting here. It's very well documented. There are many who knew of the letters that Wilkerson wrote not only to him but also to Jimmy Swaggert. Guess who wrote a book titled "I Was Wrong?" It wasn't David Wilkerson, but Jimmy Baker after being humbled by God.

Instead Lori Eldridge jumps on a vague statement where Wilkerson says he senses in his spirit, and tries to give that statement legs and make it say that Wilkerson is hearing from God and therefore prophecying. If what she is saying is true then we should be much more worried about Bro. Wilkerson because that logic would only follow then that he considers his spirit to be divine!

I can feel or sense that a lot of things are going to happen, but I could be wrong, but that doesn't make me a false prophet to feel or sense and misjudge that. But then I'm only relying on myself. There's a world of difference when I qualify that statement by saying, "The Spirit revealed to me..." This Wilkerson did not do; yet Lori Eldridge brazenly makes the claim that he did. This would make her guilty of bearing false witness. What does the Bible say about those who do that?

(Please note that the exclamations I used in this reply are most certainly not aimed at you, but at the strawman tactics used by Lori Eldridge.)

In Christ,
Jeremy Hulsey





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Jeremy Hulsey

 2004/2/12 19:29Profile
flyfishing
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Joined: 2004/2/11
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 Re:

Jeremy, Debating about what terms wilkersen uses is splitting hairs. You make a statement and must live up to it. Plus the stock crash he predicted etc.

 2004/2/12 22:25Profile
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re: The Lies of Lori Eldridge (Part 1)

The Lies of Lori Eldridge (Part 1)

Flyfishing, you accuse me of splitting hairs? Well let me be guilty of that if that’s what it takes to bring out the truth. You certainly were in approval of Miss Eldrige’s hair splitting tactics, but I guess that’s ok since you’re in agreement with her. At least I’m going to give her a luxury she deprived Bro. Wilkerson of: an honest assessment of her writings. I really don’t think you will accept what I have to say, even though it will be the truth, but many will come and read this discussion after it’s over and I’m not about to let people be convinced by reading the false accusations, misquotes, and outright lies printed on that web-page without providing an accurate defense and proper treatment of David Wilkerson’s writings.

David Wilkerson claims he’s not a prophet. Yet he prophesies? The simplest definition of a prophet would be one who speaks for God. In Exodus, Moses’ brother Aaron is compared to a prophet because he speaks for Moses. The best definition of a prophet, I believe is found in Jeremiah 23:21-22, I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran. I have not spoken to them yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in My counsel, and had caused My people to hear My words, then they would have turned them from their evil way and from the evil of their doings. (NKJV) Simply put, a true prophet turns people from their sin. Now this begs the question, do I believe that David Wilkerson is a prophet? The answer to that question is yes. But he says he’s not a prophet? Well so did Amos. “Then Amos answered, ‘I was no prophet, nor was I the son of a prophet. But I was a sheep breeder and a tender of sycamore fruit. Then the Lord took me as I followed the flock and the Lord said to me, ‘Go, prophesy to My people Israel.’’” (Amos 7:14,15) Another example is John the Baptist: “And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."” Yet Jesus said he was the Elijah to come in Matthew 11:14.

So since you will probably run from one false claim to another, I have decided to do an exhaustive expose of Lori Eldridge’s lies one at a time.

Quote:
David Wilkerson's False Prophecies
The following are a collection of quotes from David Wilkerson's newsletters that indicate he has been giving false teachings and false prophecies. David Wilkerson claims to not be a prophet, yet even says in his newsletters he was given a prophetic message from the Lord for us and he keeps giving prophecies. Regardless of whether he is or not, his prophecies are not coming true as I will show below.
How many false prophecies should a real prophet or teacher of the Word be allowed? Paul told the Thessalonians: "For our exhortation does not come from error or impurity or by way of deceit; but just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak, not as pleasing men but God, who examines our hearts." (1 Thess. 2:3).Please notice that Paul claimed that his teachings were not in error, or in an attempt to deceive or were they in any way impure. Here is another verse that condemns false prophets: "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has NOT spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." (Deut. 18:22) And yet today's "prophets," and their followers claim that error is ok. It really makes you wonder which bible are they reading.
In the critiques below David Wilkerson's quotes are in bold



Lori needs to learn from 1Thess. 2:3 herself “For our exhortation does not come from error or impurity or by way of DECEIT…” After you read the truth you’ll wonder which part of Thou shalt not bear false witness she does not understand.

Quote:
No more gospel Television Networks by 1999
From David Wilkerson's newsletter "In the Solomon Church" 12-19-94 (it can also be found at the following URL if you can read polish: http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/polish/ts941219.htm

"Right now I sense in my spirit that in less that 5 years there will be no more so-called gospel television networks. They will all fall into bankruptcy and absolute ruin.

Have all the gospel networks dissapeared from TV after 1999?
Have all the gospel networks fallen into bankruptcy and absolute ruin?
Was the "Spirit" speaking to him telling him the truth?


I already covered this in an earlier post, but I will go over it shortly again. The key is in her last question. Watch how she twists Dave Wilkerson mentioning that it was his own spirit and not the Holy Spirit in which he sensed this. Basically put, this is not a prophecy but a feeling. “Was the ‘Spirit’ telling him the truth?” Well Lori, according to the quote by Wilkerson himself, the Spirit was not talking to him at all, it was just a feeling he had. A mere speculation. The only way for Dave Wilkerson to be falsely prophesying is for you to twist the meaning of “my spirit” into “the Spirit.” Now check out the section from the same newsletter where David is expressly talking about when something was revealed to him from the Holy Spirit:
Quote:
Two years before the PTL ministry fell, the Spirit of God came upon me and instructed me to write a long letter to Jim Bakker. I wrote, "In two years, by March 15, PTL will be dead." I described a vision of emptiness -- of weeds growing tall and bats nesting in the buildings.
Jim read the letter and called me, asking, "What must I do?" I told him first to get rid of all the homosexuals in his ministry. Yet, not long after that conversation, Jim appeared on television mocking every word I said. Two years later, to the very day, the Lord's word about PTL happened -- just as He had told me.


Notice the difference? I can remember as a kid watching the PTL ministry after the fall of Baker and seeing Tammy Faye and her children sitting in an empty building pleading for money. Outside weeds had overgrown the vegetation from lack of care. Why didn’t she attack this OBVIOUS prophecy? Because it happened just like he warned.
Quote:
1,000 Fires burning in NY, Race Riots, Federal Troops, Tanks in the streets, churches closed, by 1993
From David Wilkerson's Newsletter Oct. 8, 2001 "A Prophetic Warning to New York City"where he quoted a prophecy from his Sept. 7, 1992 newletter

"I have had recurring visions of over 1,000 fires burning at one time here in New York city. I am convinced RACE RIOTS WILL SOON EXPLODE! New York City is right now a powder keg-ready to blow!...federal and State Welfare cutbacks will be the spark that ignites the fuse. NEXT YEAR, New York City could have over 100,000 angry men on the streets, enraged because they have been cut off from benefits....Federal troops will have to move in to restore order. New York City will have tanks running down its avenues....Churches will be closed for a season because it will be too dangerous to travel about. Fires will rage everywhere. "

David Wilkerson said this would happen the NEXT YEAR. 1992 + 1 = 1993
Were there 100,000 angry men on the streets in 1993?
Did the recent destruction that befell NY on Sept. 11, 2001, involve the WHOLE city?
Have race riots exploded in NY even after 2001?
Or has there been a resurgence of Love in NYC since Sept. 11, 2001?
Have federal troops had to move in to restore order because of welfare benefits being cut off?
Have Tanks run down the streets of NY city anytime after 1993?
Were all the Churches closed since 1993?
Was Wilkerson's church closed?
Are people still walking about NY city?
Did fires rage everywhere or just in the Twin Towers?
Did even one of the above predictions occur by 1993?


Wow, she’s really caught him this time hasn’t she? Or has she? Now as it happens, I have and have read these newsletters, and I am familiar with his prophecy in 1992. To my knowledge this is where the misconception of Dave Wilkerson setting dates has arisen. Now that you have seen and read her accusation, let’s look at the REAL statement that Bro. Wilkerson made in 1992, and then quoted himself in 2001. She missed it both times by the way.
Quote:
Here is what David Wilkerson really said:
Dear saint, this warning is not meant to scare anyone. It's meant only for you to take to the Lord and pray. This is what I believe the Lord showed me:
Thirty days of chastisement will fall on New York City such as the world has never seen. God is going to let down the walls! There will be unimaginable violence and looting - over a thousand fires will be burning at the same time, throughout the city and its boroughs. Times Square will be ablaze, and the flames that ascend into the heavens will be seen for miles. Firetrucks will not be able to handle it all!
Trains and buses will shut down for a few weeks. Billions of dollars will be lost. Broadway shows will stop completely for weeks at a time. It will cause businesses to flee the city in an unstoppable hemorrhage. The violence will be so ferocious, it will shock the whole world. Our streets will be lined with not just the national guard, but our country's militia. Los Angeles' fires were confined to a few sections of that city - but New York will be ablaze in all its boroughs!
Such things are expected in Third World countries, but not in a civilized nation like the United States. Yet in not too long a time afterward, New York City will go bankrupt - the world's "queen city" cast into the dirt! It truly will become a Third World city - a city of poverty!


And did he say this would take place in 1993??? Well here is the timeline he gives right after this prophecy:
Quote:

When will all this come about, you ask? All I can say is, I believe I will be here when it happens! And when it happens, no matter where we are - in our apartment or on the job - we are not to panic or fear!


David Wilkerson said this would happen the NEXT YEAR. 1992 + 1 = 1993 – Lie
Were there 100,000 angry men on the streets in 1993? – He didn’t say this in1993! (more on this in a minute)
Did the recent destruction that befell NY on Sept. 11, 2001, involve the WHOLE city? – As we will find out, David did not make this claim. Lori apparently flunked reading comprehension in grammar school…several times.
Have race riots exploded in NY even after 2001?
Or has there been a resurgence of Love in NYC since Sept. 11, 2001?
Have federal troops had to move in to restore order because of welfare benefits being cut off?
Have Tanks run down the streets of NY city anytime after 1993?
Were all the Churches closed since 1993?
Was Wilkerson's church closed?
Are people still walking about NY city?
Did fires rage everywhere or just in the Twin Towers?

According to what Lori CLAIMS Wilkerson said, these questions need to be answered. But if you look at the REAL statement Bro. Wilkerson made, then these questions become irrelevant.
Now to be fair, David did make the statement that Lori Eldridge claims he made. But it was not in a newsletter, but a cover letter sent out around 1995! How do I know this, well let’s just say that I have been following Bro. Wilkerson’s ministry since late 1991 and not only do I keep his newsletters, but I also have the cover letters that he sends out with them.
Now let’s examine this quote. During that time the Republican Revolution had just taken place in congress and President Clinton was forced into signing the welfare reform acts. This caused a considerable amount of anxiety in larger cities because of the large population in them that relied on welfare. The thought of riots was very real for a time. Now for this to be a false prophecy, first it has to BE a prophecy. But a closer look reveals that Wilkerson is merely speculating about a possible way that God was going to fulfill the prophecy “NEXT YEAR, New York City COULD have over 100,000 angry men on the streets, enraged because they have been cut off from benefits.”
The feared welfare cutoffs never came. As far as the race riots? Well if you’ve ever been to New York City, you know that there are certain areas that you do not go to because of racial tension. While visiting the city with a ministry group, one of my more naïve friends tried to strike up a conversation with some fellows of a different race. The look in their eyes made it clear they wanted nothing to do with us. Our only crime? We were white. Race riots may sound strange in Middle America, but it is feasible in a city like New York.
Quote:
Prophesy for 1993 now means Sept. 11, 2001

"Calls and messages have flooded our ministry offices, asking, 'Was the terrorist attack on September 11, the calamity you were prophesying back in 1992?' No, not at all. What I saw coming will be much more severe. Indeed, if America rejects God's call to turn back to him, we'll face the same judgments Israel faced. And they will hit not only New York but every region in the country. Even the heartland won't be spared. The nation's economy will collapse, and violence will erupt. Fires will consume our cities, and tanks will rumble through the streets. "

Did David Wilkerson forget that in 1992 he said that this calamity would befall NY that VERY NEXT YEAR-1993?
Now he is claiming that it is still coming.
Did Wilkerson make a mistake or was it God who made the mistake?
Does God make mistakes?


Did David Wilkerson forget that in 1992 he said that this calamity would befall NY that VERY NEXT YEAR-1993? – I’m sure this would be news to him, considering you can’t even get the quote right Lori! Again, once the truth about what Wilkerson said comes out, Lori’s lies become irrelevant.
Now he is claiming that it is still coming. – He always was, but then again, he isn’t going according to Lori Eldridge’s timetable that she so kindly set up for David. It seems the real thing couldn’t be knocked down, so she had to make a straw man.
Did Wilkerson make a mistake or was it God who made the mistake? – Well, we’re leaving one important person out of the loop, and that is the liar, Lori Eldridge. Once her name is added it becomes clear that it is she that made the mistake!

More to come tommorrow either before or after I go to work. We'll once again see Miss Eldridge's inability to comprehend simple grammar.

In Christ,
Jeremy Hulsey


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2004/2/16 20:44Profile
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re: The Lies Of Lori Eldridge (Part 2)

The Lies of Lori Eldridge (Part 2)

After doing a little more investigating of what Lori has claimed Wilkerson said, I find the truth to be very enlightening. We have now come to Lori’s version of Dave admitting to false prophecy. You will find that quite the opposite is taking place once all the words that Bro. Wilkerson has said have been put back into their proper context. What David says and what Lori says David says are quite different.

Quote:


False Prophecy - Inivitable Financial Crash in 2000
David Wilkerson's prophecy from his cover letter dated: May 1, 2000.

"For the last two years I have been crying aloud, warning all who would hear that America is receiving her last call and that judgment is at the door. I did not say this was the end of the nation, but the last call before a financial crash."

"I am writing this letter to you on Saturday, April 15, 2000. I have on my desk the headlines in yesterday's paper: "BLACK FRIDAY - BIGGEST ONE-DAY DROP IN HISTORY." The Dow fell 618 points - the Nasdaq fell 355. I do not know what is coming in the next sixty days. If the market bounces back, I can assure you it will be temporary. THE CRASH IS INEVITABLE - NOTHING CAN STOP IT."


If one were to read only this part then you would expect that Dave thought his prophecy was only days from being fulfilled; however, when one looks at a passage immediately following this quote the context of a potential timeline suddenly leaves Miss Eldridge grasping for answers to back up here lies. Here is the expanded quote in its context:
Quote:

Dearly Beloved:
MAY THE LORD BLESS AND KEEP YOU IN ALL YOUR WAYS.
For the last two years I have been crying aloud, warning all who would hear that America is receiving her last call and that judgment is at the door. I did not say this was the end of the nation, but the last call before a financial crash.
I am writing this letter to you on Saturday, April 15, 2000. I have on my desk the headlines in yesterday's paper: "BLACK FRIDAY - BIGGEST ONE-DAY DROP IN HISTORY." The Dow fell 618 points - the Nasdaq fell 355. I do not know what is coming in the next sixty days. If the market bounces back, I can assure you it will be temporary. THE CRASH IS INEVITABLE - NOTHING CAN STOP IT.
How do I know this? I am not a prophet. I am but one of the Lord's many watchmen. I love this country, but according to scripture, America has committed a grievous sin that God will not forgive, and which he must soon judge.
History is repeating itself. King Manasseh "filled Jerusalem with innocent blood, which the Lord would not pardon" (2 Kings 24:4). This king led Israel into child sacrifices, and multitudes of innocent children were slaughtered. God swore he would not forgive that sin, and he would judge the whole nation for such crimes. A long spiritual revival preceded the judgment - but in spite of the spiritual awakening, God said he would not forgive the shedding of innocent blood.
GOD WILL NOT PARDON A NATION FOR THE SHEDDING OF INNOCENT BLOOD. AMERICA STANDS ON THE BRINK OF A GREAT CHASTISEMENT FOR THE KILLING OF MILLIONS OF INNOCENT CHILDREN. GOD HAS A CONTROVERSY WITH US.



It’s painfully obvious to all except for Lori Eldridge that Bro. Wilkerson is not making clams that his prophecy is absolutely about to be filled. Certainly not when he says the he DOESN”T KNOW what will happen in the next sixty days. “THE CRASH IS INEVITABLE - NOTHING CAN STOP IT.” This statement becomes clear when the whole context of the cover letter is looked at. He’s saying that America has crossed the line that judgment is sure and will not be stopped.
“A long spiritual revival preceded the judgment - but in spite of the spiritual awakening, God said he would not forgive the shedding of innocent blood.” Certainly this leaves open the hope that we could see a long period before any of these things happen. Now the question arises, does Dave Wilkerson believe that we could be given a reprieve from the inevitable judgments that will come to America? Read the final words from his message “The Towers Have Fallen But We Missed The Message.”
Quote:

Perhaps you wonder, as I have, "Can any of this be avoided?" Yes, absolutely. I believe we'll be given a reprieve if our President proves to be a Josiah. You may well remember Josiah as the king who sought the Lord with all his heart. We all should pray that God would give our President the same spirit that Josiah had, to tremble at his Word. The Lord spoke the following to Josiah:
"Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof...because they have forsaken me, and have (worshipped) other gods...But [say] to the king of Judah which sent you to enquire of the Lord...Because thine heart was tender, and thou hast humbled thyself before the Lord, and thou heardest what I spake against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, that they should become a desolation and a curse...I also have heard thee, saith the Lord. Behold therefore...thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place" (2 Kings 22:15-20).
God told the king, in essence, "As long as you're in power, trembling at my Word and relying on me, you won't see the judgments to come. They won't happen during your reign."
I believe our window of opportunity to respond to God's call is brief. We all should pray that our nation repents and turns back to the Lord. But our most intense prayers should be for our own hearts: "Lord, let me tremble not at the disasters, but at your Word. I want to hear your voice in all of this. Cause me to turn wholly to you."


The timeline that Miss Eldridge trumpets is nowhere indicated it the writings and messages of Dave Wilkerson. Certainly he holds out hope that God could bring us mercy before we see the judgment. Perhaps I should title these posts “The Truth Has Fallen Because Lori Missed The Message.”
Quote:

David Wilkerson admits false prophecy of 5-01-00, due to market reaching record high by May 22, 2000 (7 days later).
From a cover letter dated May 22, 2000 when asked about his warning that the stock market was going to crash, when it didn't, Wilkerson states:

"In prayer, I have told the Lord I am ready at any time to confess I am wrong - that I must have spoken from my own fears or that I have spoken unadvisedly. Recently, when the market reached record highs, I wondered if those calling me a false prophet were right."

Please notice he calls himself a prophet here (he denied it in his previous cover letter). And yet a few sentences later, in regards to his error, he says,:

"No matter what others think, I cannot shake off the urgency of the Holy Spirit to warn God's people. . . . I hear God's still, small voice saying, "It is coming. It will happen suddenly. Forget the criticism -- warn the people."

So what we have in one sentence he refutes in another, i.e., previously he said, being as the stock marked did not fail he must have spoken from his own fears (and thus not from God) and thus he was in error. But a few sentences later he says it's still coming. How many other prophets sing this same tune with every false prophecy? (he admits other errors in this same newsletter re divorce and starting church homes).
Wilkerson admitted to his mistake this time.
Doesn't he claim to being lead by the Holy Spirit?
Was it God's spirit that led him astray?
Does the Holy Spirit lead believers astray?

What does scripture tells us about those who give false prophecies?


Here we have another classic move by Miss Eldridge, one that should be becoming quite familiar to all by now, taking quotes and making them say something totally different from their context. Lori Eldridge banks on the hope that those who read her lies will not check out her sources, hoping that they will bye them as truth and then spread them around on the internet. So once again, let’s look at the complete context of the cover letter. (note, these are not the news letters and Lori is saying but cover letters that accompany the news letters)
Quote:

I am going to do my best to answer a number of questions asked by some of our readers. Hopefully you will know our hearts as I share.
Question #3:
"Your last book warned of a coming depression. You have been saying for a long time that the stock market is going to blow and America would be chastened by an economic holocaust. I believed you, even though you say you are not a prophet. But there seems to be no sign of a crash. Will you apologize if it doesn't happen reasonably soon?"
Answer: I do not understand God's mercy to America. It could only be his extended mercy that has caused God to not yet chasten our nation. I do not want it to happen. We have a ministry to many needy people, and an economic collapse would affect all we do.
In prayer, I have told the Lord I am ready at any time to confess I am wrong - that I must have spoken from my own fears or that I have spoken unadvisedly. Recently, when the market reached record highs, I wondered if those calling me a false prophet were right. But I know how diligently I seek God. I know what it's like to weep and groan before the Lord as the Holy Spirit shows me what is coming. No matter what others think, I cannot shake off the urgency of the Holy Spirit to warn God's people. Every time I am shut in with God, fasting and praying, I hear the trumpet blowing. I hear God's still, small voice saying, "It is coming. It will happen suddenly. Forget the criticism - warn the people."
I believe what I have been warning about - more than ever! The speculative boom is almost over. The balloon is about to burst. No matter how high the market goes, it is going to collapse. I don't know when but I do know it is certain. God will not delay much longer. The next American president is going to preside over a deeply troubled economy.


Once again in his answer he deals first with the timeline that God is having mercy on America. But this is totally logical since Bro Wilkerson has never set any dates with this prophecy in question. There is no admission to false prophecy as Miss Eldridge falsely claims. Instead I see something else taking place.

Jeremiah 20:7-10

7 O Lord, You induced me, and I was persuaded; You are stronger than I, and have prevailed. I am in derision daily; Everyone mocks me.
8 For when I spoke, I cried out; I shouted, "Violence and plunder!" Because the word of the Lord was made to me A reproach and a derision daily.
9 Then I said, "I will not make mention of Him, Nor speak anymore in His name." But His word was in my heart like a burning fire Shut up in my bones; I was weary of holding it back, And I could not.
10 For I heard many mocking: "Fear on every side!""Report," they say, "and we will report it!" All my acquaintances watched for my stumbling, saying, "Perhaps he can be induced; Then we will prevail against him, And we will take our revenge on him."

Jeremiah started prophesying that judgment from the Lord was coming during the reign of one of the most godly kings in Judah’s history. He was continually mocked and ridiculed about his ludicrous judgments. Here’s my view of what David Wilkerson is saying in this letter:

“In prayer, I have told the Lord I am ready at any time to confess I am wrong - that I must have spoken from my own fears or that I have spoken unadvisedly. Recently, when the market reached record highs, I wondered if those calling me a false prophet were right.”

He is experiencing doubt that what he has heard in his prayers has been the voice of the Lord in the first part.

“But I know how diligently I seek God. I know what it's like to weep and groan before the Lord as the Holy Spirit shows me what is coming. No matter what others think, I cannot shake off the urgency of the Holy Spirit to warn God's people.”

But after searching his heart he knows that it must have been God telling him these things.

“Every time I am shut in with God, fasting and praying, I hear the trumpet blowing. I hear God's still, small voice saying, "It is coming. It will happen suddenly. Forget the criticism - warn the people."

I believe what I have been warning about - more than ever!”

He has overcome his doubts after searching himself to know with even more faith that it is God who has spoken to him and he will warn the people all the more!

Once again Lori Eldridge’s accusatory questions that follow become totally irrelevant in light of the true context of David Wilkerson’s statements.

“(he admits other errors in this same newsletter re divorce and starting church homes).”

Well I’ll put the quotes from the “cover letter” but you will see that the statement about divorce is not an admission of error but simply a clarification to a reader with a question. And when David does make a mistake, this one was not a prophecy, we see he quickly admits it, in this case with his starting of a home series for those who do not have access to churches that preach the truth.
Quote:

Question #2:
"As a pastor of a small church, I was deeply bothered by your suggestion that disgruntled Christians start their own church at home, using video tapes of your Times Square Church services. A few in our church who disagree with me have left and started their own meetings, and they seem determined to shut us down. Do you really believe you heard from the Lord on this?"
Answer: Truthfully, I did not pray this matter through as I should have. It has been a flop. We received probably less than 150 responses, and only a handful have conducted meetings. God has blessed it only in remote areas where there are no churches within miles. I am a pastor - I know the importance of being part of a body of believers, under God-appointed pastors and leaders. And I have repented before the Lord for not acknowledging him on this matter. God knows my heart - and he has gently let the idea die. We will continue to make our videos available, but we are not advocating home churches.
Question #4:
"I am confused by your statement: 'Divorce is never an option.' Are you saying it is not an option when there has been wife beating, unfaithfulness, homosexuality, etc.? I've been divorced because of an abusive husband - but you make it sound like I had no choice."
Answer: I should have made myself clearer on this subject. I believe the Lord made an exception for divorce in the case of adultery. And there are other legitimate reasons for divorce. To discover you have married a homosexual is a hopeless situation. So is the case with physical abuse. My point is: Divorce is not an option for married Christians who refuse to seek God for reconciliation. It takes two to hold a marriage together. I have seen many "hopeless" marriages miraculously healed. Nothing is impossible with God. Often, just one praying mate has saved a marriage.


Questions 1 and 5 deal with information about what his ministry in New York does.
“What does scripture tells us about those who give false prophecies?”
Lori, what does scripture say about those who lie about their neighbor, and who does it say their father is?
It’s amazing how much damage we can cause by not loving the truth.

In Christ,
Jeremy Hulsey


_________________
Jeremy Hulsey

 2004/2/18 10:37Profile
flyfishing
Member



Joined: 2004/2/11
Posts: 15


 Re:

Jeremy, When one speaks in the name of the LORD and says something will happen within 60 days and does not then perhaps the human element is too much prevalent. I believe David wilkersen is a godly man that preaches Gods word. However to label him as a prophet is somewhat dubious..

ps. I tryed reading your rebuttal but saw no dates to articles. You wholeheartedly follow this mans ministry fine. But if you choose to defend him you might be a little more "excellent" in your rebuttals.

I saw nothing there to disprove the incidents in question.. He set a 60 day period. There was no nationwide repentance like that of jonah that averted Gods judgement.

Im sorry that your love for man is greater than love for truth..

 2004/2/22 15:37Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Jeremy,

Quote:

Instead Lori Eldridge jumps on a vague statement where Wilkerson says he senses in his spirit, and tries to give that statement legs and make it say that Wilkerson is hearing from God and therefore prophecying. If what she is saying is true then we should be much more worried about Bro. Wilkerson because that logic would only follow then that he considers his spirit to be divine!



You know as well as I do that in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles when somebody says they are sensing something in their spirit, that means they are claiming a revelation from God. After all His Spirit bears witness with our spirit. If this statement is not that, then it can really only be interpreted as some form of divination or some other demonic.

I would suggest you back off this hero worship. I think you know quite well enough when a Pentecostal/Charismatic claims to be sensing something in their spirit, that they are claiming some sort of divine revelation from God. Shame on you. If Wilkerson was wrong, admit he was wrong, and pray he repents and moves on.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2004/2/22 16:20Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37303
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Jimmy (PreachingToCannibals) I have to put on my moderator hat for this one. I don't think your statements hold any weight.

Quote:
You know as well as I do that in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles when somebody says they are sensing something in their spirit, that means they are claiming a revelation from God. After all His Spirit bears witness with our spirit. If this statement is not that, then it can really only be interpreted as some form of divination or some other demonic.


This explains your use of your own imaginations and calling them revelations from God. If Wilkerson hears from God he plainly says it is so. If he is thinking about something and pondering it in his spirit then he states that. He is a man of God that is quite plain and very simple but profound in his faith.

I think what you are referring to above: [i]You know as well as I do that in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles when somebody says they are sensing something in their spirit, that means they are claiming a revelation from God.[/i] is alot of the verse below:

[b]Jeremiah 23:16[/b] - This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD .

If you hear from God it is a surety! God will always confirm it with His word. That's why Wilkerson lives in the book and God always speaks to Him through the Scriptures.

Quote:
I would suggest you back off this hero worship. I think you know quite well enough when a Pentecostal/Charismatic claims to be sensing something in their spirit, that they are claiming some sort of divine revelation from God. Shame on you. If Wilkerson was wrong, admit he was wrong, and pray he repents and moves on.


This is not 'hero worship,' the article against wilkerson is awful and our brother is writing a clear rebutal to the article which is sorely needed. Please be careful of speaking against what you don't know. He is 'moving on' from faith to faith and glory to glory. Wilkerson has forsure been wrong in interpretations of the Scriptures before and many other things he has said, but so have we all. I think [i]Jeremy[/i] is doing a great systematic job at tackling this issue and you are welcome to join in, in the same manner, but please refrain from judging peoples character.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/2/22 18:03Profile





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