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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Implications of dispensationalism

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CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Implications of dispensationalism

In Paris Reidhead's [url="http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=40"]The Right Use of the Law[/url] he mentioned the fact that dispensationalism is like being pregnant, there's no way to half eat it. Interestingly, with the topics of End Time Doctrine and Jesuits coming up lately, perhaps this topic needs to be visited.

What I put forward is to discuss the possible implications of Dispensational Teaching (as taught by the likes of Darby, Irving, Scofield, etc..) and how they have affected the teachings and philosophies of the Evangelical Church today. Personally I can see the following issues:
Pre-trib rapture theory.
Confusing the Protestant case against Roman Catholicism.
Preaching the gospel without using the Law to produce godly sorrow.

While I know that this has potential to get pretty heated, my hope is that there can be some intelligent discussion on these and possibly other issues. Perhaps some of us who, through painful searching, have suspected that some of the "sacred cows" that we have been assured are orthodox teaching by Bible teachers that we have trusted will find the "smoking gun" that reveals the "questionable" as downright "toxic".

Please feel free to enter into this discussion, as I believe that some of these issues are of paramount importance when it comes to seeing revival break out in our own lives and church.

Ladies and gentlemen, start your engines:-).


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/2/21 7:57Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Implications of dispensationalism

Perhaps to contribute to this discussion, you guys might be interested in a short 30 minute lecture I gave at my Bible college giving an introduction to dispensationalism, especially if you are not really familiar with it.

[url=http://www.christiansteps.com/sermons/dispensationalism_lecture_lee_university.mp3]Dispensationalism Lecture[/url]

Also, last semester I took a history class where we talked further about the part dispensationalism has taken in forming current evangelical theology. With the swelling of liberalism and modernism in the seminaries, and the falling away from conservative doctrine, dispensationalists were fundamental in insisting on the fundamentals of the faith in the late 19th/early 20th century, and essentially helping preserving such doctrines as the inerrancy of Scripture, a literal interpretation of the bible, etc.

Because dispensationalism was pretty much synonomous with fundamentalism for many years, it is not overly surprising that many of us evangelicals today have adopted some of the "theological leftovers" of the dispensational interpretation of the Scriptures. Thus, doctrines such as the pre-trib rapture, cessationists views regarding the gifts, a sometimes fierce opposition to any mention of the Law of God and keeping God's commandments (anti-nomianism), etc.


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Jimmy H

 2006/2/21 8:58Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2730
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Thus, doctrines such as the pre-trib rapture, cessationists views regarding the gifts, a sometimes fierce opposition to any mention of the Law of God and keeping God's commandments (anti-nomianism), etc.



Yes, dispensaitionalists seem to want to always draw hard lines and neatly catagorize everything such as, Israel and the Church, salvation and discipleship, age of law and age of grace, etc...

I think this comes from a failure to recognize that a subject may be described throughout the Bible in different terms or that different facets of a subject may be emphasized in specific contexts.

I'm not aware of any church fathers, reformers, or Puritans who supported dispensationalism, we certainly have strayed from the "old paths".

Implications? Far and wide. And so deeply ingrained in the teaching of the modern church. This could get deep, have to think some more on this.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2006/2/21 9:24Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

InTheLight wrote:
Implications? Far and wide. And so deeply ingrained in the teaching of the modern church. This could get deep, have to think some more on this.



Deep indeed. But perhaps there is a time to look deep into things. This generation has little patience for deep things. Perhaps the prophet's words could be an adequate warning for us, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge".

To quote Oswald Chambers:
Quote:

We are rarely taught to think along these lines. Thinking is not of first importance, but it is of mighty importance secondarily. The man who prefers to be lazy in his spiritual life may do well enough, but it is the man who has thought on the basis of things who is able to give intelligent help to those who are up against it.


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/2/21 9:34Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: Implications of dispensationalism

Quote:
Please feel free to enter into this discussion, as I believe that some of these issues are of paramount importance when it comes to seeing revival break out in our own lives and church.



Hello CJaKfOrEsT,

I'm curious if you might expound this statement abit more. I'm wondering if you are suspecting that dispensationalism's lingering effects are hindering revival.

To be honest I am cautious in discussing this subject...we have a tendency to boil ideas we don't like down into simple and often negative stereotypes. While I am not a dispensationalist in the formal sense, I sigh whenever dispensationalism, like Calvinism, is wrongly portrayed as being compatible with anti-nomianism. (Indeed, these two schools of thought have been accused of ratifying sin...)

So this is why, I would be curious if we could first, as a prelude to this thread, link the question of dispensationalism to the greater question of revival.

Thanks!

MC


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Mike Compton

 2006/2/21 9:44Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Anyone who believes that the New Covenant 'followed' the Old Covenant is a dispensationalist. Now all we have to do is measure the degree. :-D


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Ron Bailey

 2006/2/21 10:01Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

Compton wrote:
So this is why, I would be curious if we could first, as a prelude to this thread, link the question of dispensationalism to the greater question of revival.



By linking it to revival, I mean to say that the issues raised can be a hinderance to revival, as defined by Finney:
Quote:

(Revival) is the renewal of the first love of Christians, resulting in the awakening and conversion of sinners to God. In the popular sense, a revival of religion in a community is the arousing, quickening, and reclaiming of the more or less backslidden church and the more or less general awakening of all classes, and insuring attention to the claims of God.

It presupposes that the church is sunk down in a backslidden state, and a revival consists in the return of a church from her backslidings, and in the conversion of sinners.



I have intentionally been vague, so far, so as to encourage free discussion. As has been mentioned before, topics such as End Time Teaching, Eternal Security, Calvan/Arminianism, Legalism/Mercy often invite heated discussion. I guess I have openned up a discussion on a controversial issue, that links alot of these side issues together, for the purposes of digging through the "spiritual biggotry" attached to these things, and learn from each other what is so dangerous about embracing and/or rejecting these. That's all.

Note, these issues won't stop a revival, however agreement on these issues could mean the difference in our personal life, and their application a catalyst renewed spiritual vitality through coming into a relationship with Him that is based on reality rather than fanciful ideas.


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/2/21 10:23Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I think there is a danger in dispensationalism of becoming much like Lutheranism did: cold, dead, confessional. Talk of living a life guided by the Spirit or obeying God will make one suspect of being a heretic or being an "enthusiast."

For I believe a lot of dispensationalism tends to create an unbalanced and unhealthy study of eschatology (doctrine of the end times), and in getting people so caught up in how the end times pan out, they forget to talk about how our current lives ought to pan out. Thus, creating a great hinderance to revival.

It's no surprise that Ravenhill blasted it pretty hard on a couple occasions, along with shots at Dallas Theological Seminary, of producing a Christianity that in essence isn't practical and fails to display anything of the power of God.

It's interesting how greatly interested dispensationalists are with the tribulation period, especially since they don't have any plans of staying around for it. Yet, they'll produce the most elaborate charts one can imagine in an attempt to explain Bible prophecy as they understand it.


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Jimmy H

 2006/2/21 10:32Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
I have intentionally been vague, so far, so as to encourage free discussion.



Fair enough!

I agree with Ron's comment...the idea that the New is replacing the Old gives credence to dispensationalism. However it's interesting (to myself at least) that Dispensationists don't follow this replacement vector far enough to arrive at 'Supersessionism'. Dispensationalism as I understand it is not replacement theology...I've never really understood why to be honest.

I am curious what is meant exactly by 'dispensation?' It seems from my reading on the subject that there are two synonymous understandings; a convenant or stewardship of responsibilty dispensed from God to man, and an age or period of time for the world.

If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3

MC


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Mike Compton

 2006/2/21 11:09Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

However it's interesting (to myself at least) that Dispensationists don't follow this replacement vector far enough to arrive at 'Supersessionism'. Dispensationalism as I understand it is not replacement theology...I've never really understood why to be honest.



Dispensationalism is not replacement theology because it thinks the New Testament Church age to be more along the lines of a temporary suspension of God's dealing with the nation of Israel, or as more common language "paranthesis" in relation of the Church to Israel.


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Jimmy H

 2006/2/21 12:34Profile





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