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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Romans 2:14

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kristi1
Member



Joined: 2006/2/10
Posts: 4


 Romans 2:14

If one without the law is judged according to the law written on his heart(conscience), what are the implications of this in the Christian era? How does God deal with those who live sincerely under false doctrine (Christians in the Dark Ages) or those who live a holier life than most American Christians and yet follow the tenents of their national religion (Buddism). I do not believe that there are many ways to God. The Bible clearly shows Jesus to be the only legal payment for our sin. How then can His blood be imputed to those who do not know Him. But also how does He judge those that seek to follow their conscience and yet do not know Him. I am sure that greater minds than mine have pondered this question. If anyone has any Biblical council or knows of a godly writer who has discussed this matter I would appreciate the help. :-)

 2006/2/19 23:19Profile
grod95
Member



Joined: 2005/9/1
Posts: 16


 Re: Romans 2:14

Romans is a mountain of a book. It is a life study and the revelation of its truth comes in ever-increasing stages as we walk with Christ. To gain a foundational understanding of Romans 2:14, I would suggest reading it within the context of the entire chapter. I would then pray over it and ask God to give you insight. The Holy Spirit is the true Interpreter of Scripture. The thoughts of man will at times leave you wanting. But when God gives revelation on scripture, the truth will abide in your heart forever. Just seek him for the truth, my sister.

 2006/2/19 23:37Profile









 Re: Romans 2:14

It appears here grod that kristi too is seeking "dialogue".

I think the main points I can see is that "they are without excuse", {Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse} even the heathens in the jungles and to realize also, that there are differing degrees of Hell, because of how even the unsaved are sinning against their "God given conscience" and the witness He's left of Himself in creation.

The best illustration of this was a true story from a Missionary ... about the Chief of an 'uncivilized' Tribe.

He had a practice of going up to a mountain to pray to a god in the sky. The only God he could figure there was, had to live UP.

One day he had a vision while up there, praying to be a good leader to and for his people, to this "God".

A Voice said to him, "a man will come to your village to show you the Way, with this sign on the thing in his hand" and the Chief 'saw' the Cross.

Not long after, a Missionary came to the Village carrying a Bible with a Cross on the cover and the Chief rejoiced and had all his people to come listen to this Messenger from God.

Just goes to show ya ... Jesus 'is' the only way and He'll go 'all out' to save a searching/open heart ... no matter where they are.

I'm sure others will come with more.

God bless ya.


Edited to say: Grod is right too though ;-) .

Because none of the books, which were really letters, had divisions of Chpt.s and verses so it's one running commentary, and your question's answer starts in Chpt. 1.
Sorry for that "tone" grod. I'm truly trying my bestest to work on that also.
I need a "toning fork". Or is it tuning ? :-(
God Bless ya's.

 2006/2/20 0:22
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Romans 2:14 follows close on the heels of God, who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life Rom 2:5-7) This is the section of Romans that seems to have those in mind who are referred to as 'those who judge another' (Rom 2:1) In this section Paul is making the point that anyone who demands 'moral values' from another is putting himself under the same obligation. This is broader than the Jews who came later in Rom 2.

The plain statements of this passage indicate that God judges us 'according to his deeds' but these 'deeds' are then linked to 'motives'. Those who are seeking for
1. glory
2. honour
3. immortaily
... the promise is 'eternal life'. This sits uncomfortably with the ways that evangelicals usually express things, but this seems to be saying that those seeking 'glory, honour, immortaliy' will be rewarded with 'eternal life'.

Perhaps the next section will make it more plain. Here again it is 'deeds AND attitudes' which are under examination. The criteria this time are those who are

1. contentious
2. do not obey the truth
3. obey unrighteousness
...their 'reward' will be quite different...indignation, wrath, tribulation and anguish, and (the familiar theme of Romans) in this there is no difference between the Gentile and the Jew. There is no respect of persons with God.

So how are we evangelicals to interpret this? Is 'eternal life' the 'reward of our seeking' or is it 'the gift of God'?


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Ron Bailey

 2006/2/20 7:10Profile
crusader
Member



Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 410
Australia:

 Re: Romans 2:14

our God is a rightious God. he knows the hearts and minds of every person on earth before the begining of it so he can judge clearly as to what each individual knows and doesn't know. we can only judge by the way each person communicates with us in the time span that we meet them, therefore our judgement can err. but through the holy spirit these hidden chambers of their heart can effectifely be brought to the light so that the revelations of Gods gosepel can work in their lives. if a person lives by the knowledge of one law it his response to that law that he will be judged. the only time a person is convicted of Gods law is when he brings it into their hearts and it is rejected.

If a stranger accidently lands in America without ever meeting any Locals or reading any of there books, and starts to act in a way that is not lawful for American's to do, is he then excused by the law and the penalty removed as well as taught the law so he doesn't break it again or convicted and penalized!!!


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karl rashleigh

 2006/2/23 11:40Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: Romans 2:14

Quote:
If one without the law is judged according to the law written on his heart(conscience), what are the implications of this in the Christian era?



The apostle's words are to the point that those who are under the law are condemned by the law, and those who are without the law are condemned by their own standard. That is they don't even live up to the standard of their own conscience.

It is acknowleged by many that those who hold the teaching of Confusious have one of the hightest standards of conduct. Yet no one lives up to this standard. They stand condemned by their own standard. The higher the standard, the greater the failure. But no one even lives up to the lowest standard.

Even among theives, there is "honor among theives." (you watch my back, I watch yours) Yet, they will betray one another when it suits them.

And this leads to the conclusion that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And all are lost and separated from God apart from the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.

His conclusion is that all are sinners. All have fallen short, and all are in need of the redemption which is in Christ by faith.

Graftedbranch

 2006/2/25 10:43Profile
arbustum
Member



Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 96
Sydney Australia

 Re:

this is cool, i always thought of it as a challenge, i mean, if people who dont know God can get their head around living for others (which is what you end up doing in practising the word) then how much less of an excuse do we have to 'get on with it'. thanks for bringing a new angle to it.


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holly

 2006/2/27 21:24Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Interesting, but after I read this thread and refreshed the page this came up in the random article

The Justice of God in the Damnation of Sinners
by Jonathan Edwards

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=3382

I got down to the part where he makes refrence to Romans 3:9 and thought it might be helpfull in this topic.




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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/2/27 21:50Profile
kristi1
Member



Joined: 2006/2/10
Posts: 4


 Re:

Thank you everyone for the input.

 2006/3/24 19:36Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

My brother asked me about this while I was witnessing to him.

My take is that:

1) God will be fair. The judge of the earth will do right.

2) Those that seek God will be given the truth. God will reveal Himself to all who seek Him, regardless of geographic location. I believe when we get to heaven we will meet many who were converted who never had a Bible.

3) I have heard from someone who grew up in China that those in the Buddhist temple's are not necessarily as upright as might be thought; sort of like convents.

4) I agree that all men are without excuse (Rom 1), and that the heavens declare the glory of God. Paris Reidhead's testimony of his missionary days also revealed that natives knew much about God, but did not want to hear about turning their back on their sinful ways.


My two cents (that won't even buy coffee). But do let the Holy Spirit guide you.


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2006/3/28 23:21Profile





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