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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Last Days, Past or Present?

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 Re:

Been there my dear brother, I don't just use one scripture, I use them all. Lets use them all.

I could write on this subject forever, but I don't want to waste your time if your not interested in knowing something that will make you free.

There are millions of Christians who follow the traditional theory of the endtime teachings, all the cults follow a similiar outcome even the world has their nostrodamus that even Christians have embraced as some prophet.

Very few know this way, in fact most of those who are long since died in centuries past could tell us that these events that we speak today were and are in the past.

The history of the Rapture theory is based upon a young woman in our recent history by the name of Margaret MacDonald from Scotland who prophsied in the early part of the 1900 this teaching that all the church world accepts as truth. But before this teaching there was the belief that all these things that were prophesied by the prophets concerning Jesus and His times and the Jewish people all happened back then.

But just as Jesus said to His audience in His day,
"You make void the scriptures because of your traditions."

Shall I continue or not?

Karl

 2006/2/21 20:31









 Re:

Karl, did you say anything yet about when do we get "resurrected" ? As Paul spoke of ....

1Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 2006/2/21 20:49
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 What to expect?

Hi Karl,

Hoping to bounce off of Annies question here;

Quote:
Karl, did you say anything yet about when do we get "resurrected" ? As Paul spoke of ....


In light of these two out takes;
Quote:
The number one problem is visually seeing it happen. The Kingdom of God would not come by observation, the Kingdom of God is within you and I. Jesus Christ is that Kingdom and He came in His Kingdom, in us.

Quote:
I realize that I am rocking the boat, but we must realize too that God has been restoring the church since the reformation. The word was not lost, but the experince of that word was. When the reformation started the truth that was restored to the church was the "The Just Shall Live By Faith" was herelded. That went on until the restoration of the first doctrine of baptism when people were submerged and not just the sprinkling of Rome. Hebrews 6 has these foundational truths. The second baptism to be restored was the Baptism of the holy Ghost in the early part of the 20th century. Than the powers of God in the gifts of the spirit were restored, thru the laying on of hands. Guess whats next to be restored to the church? "Resurrection"! it was once experinced, it shall be again. Does anyone believe that? "Let us move on to perfection".


Without forcing you in to a particular 'camp' and though the 'resemblance' being that of a 'preterist' view point by similarity, the difficulty I have found is in want of explanation of what is to be expected from where we now stand.
Cannot seem to recall a good explanation as to what is to be anticipated from that view point.

Is it the idea that the world will gradually become better and better, due to the saints overtaking if I may put it that way? In this perspective is there no expectation that the Lord will return physically to reign and rule over the new heaven and new earth?

There is a whole host of other questions raised and it seems that what is present now in reality would negate much of that with where the world is heading, but would welcome to hear just what future anticipations are accordingly.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/2/23 9:53Profile









 Re: What to expect?

Brother Mike said

Quote:
the difficulty I have found is in want of explanation of what is to be expected from where we now stand.


Not everyone is a Prophet to know the future, but there have been a couple of good reliable sources of what has taken place over the last few years and one of them being David Wilkerson's fulfilled book The Vision.

Every Christian on the face of the planet would like to know what is happening today and what will happen tomorrow. Preterists have the same desire as you do, however, their desire is also to place fulfilled scripture in its proper place.

In regards to the future we can look to the Word for our examples.

Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Our nation, just like all other nations who forget God are going to be turned into hell. Are they not turning into hell today? Look at them, murdering babies, homosexuality being legalized, pornography being piped into homes, the list goes on and on. Not all countries are like this, the smaller countries, the ones that we think to be insignificant God is going to bless and is blessing. They may have war, famine, and disease, but it's inhabitants are crying out to God saying such things as:

Acts 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.

Gods word is always fulfilling itself. There will always be antichrists rising, we have many today, just as we had for thousands of years. But the specifics of bible prophecy in regards to the antichrist rising during that time 2000 years ago will never happen in our future.

Someone mentioned in another forum that Christians need to go thru the tribulation. I disagree, we don't need to go thru THEE tribulation, but rather we who live GODLY IN THIS LIFE SHALL SUFFER PERSECUTION.

Mike you said that you were involved in the Word of Faith movement and had a bad experience with that, and you have counted it wrong. Somewhere in your search you received a revelation that what you have been hearing and reading is wrong. Can I not do the same thing with this teaching?, In my search as a [going with the flow] Post Tribulation rapture student, I came to the revelation that what I had believed for many many years wasn't holding water. It kept changing new things would crop up and more was being added to the teaching. When I look back at what "I used" to believe, It amazes me as to how I believed that in the first place.

Thats what the Word of Faith did to me, it sounded good, it looked good, they use all the same glossy scriptures we use to prove foundational teachings of Gods word, but there was always in itch in my spirit that I couldn't get scratched. There was always in itch about Pre, Mid and Post Amil, there was something that wasn't right.

When I read one of Kenneth E. Hagin's book the Name of Jesus where he states that Jesus became demon possessed in our stead, it was there that my itch was relieved. I tore that book up and threw it out. For those who have this book it's in chapter 3, you have to read between the lines, as he doesn't come right out and say it. Satan doesn't come right out and say lies, he laces them with truth.

So, I am like you, I am a seeker of truth. I realize that what I say concerning this subject is hard to bear, I understand that. It will only take a willing mind to drop tradition and recieve what God wants us to know.

Did you know that every Christian is in darkeness about somethings. How do I know?, Ask yourself, do you know the complete word of God? Do you know all the hidden truths, the mysteries, do you know what lurks in the dark? Do you know your own heart and what may lie there?

I hope all of you have said no. However the good news is that we can know because we have a heavenly Father that wants to reveal them to us.

Karl

 2006/2/25 12:13









 Re: What to expect?

Brother Mike said:

Quote:
There is a whole host of other questions raised


Mike this is where it all begins right here. This is the mark of student who is searching. When you have someone who doesn't ask questions all they do is just dish it out without ever wanting to learn anything, they are set in thier ways.

The diciples were constantly asking Jesus questions. Why? They were followers, thats what followers do. When you think you got your doctrine all down pat and you don't have anymore questions, thats the time that one should be afraid. Look at Peter, he thought that that Gentiles were still dogs and that you don't sit or eat with them. He got a rude awakening. You see he stopped asking questions, and God knocked him down and told him that which I have cleansed don't you call a dog. Pride is a rotten thing to have.

When studing any truth, the only place to start is at the foundation. No sense in starting at the top and work down. Many people who study eschatology start at the book of Revelation, that is the wrong place to start, because in order to understand that book you'll need the Primer, the Old Testement.

Lets look at something first, and this is not meant in any way for one to tear apart, it's a foundational truth that is nice to see unfold.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Now notice something here, he says, "Seal the Book, even to the time of the end". These are your key words, there are other key words, but we are just going to look at these.

Now between the books of Malachi and Matthew there was a time when God stopped speaking to Israel because they became stiffnecked and they no longer wanted to hear God. So the angel tells Daniel all that will happen during this time and you can read all that history in Daniel chap11.

After this period of silence from God, John the baptist is born, to prepare the way of the LORD as the land was filled with darkness both John and Jesus called it a perverse generation. Johns light representing the moon (the moon represents the Old Testement, the law and the prophets were until John) shown in the dark was preparing for Jesus the sun who was coming with healing in his wings. And Jesus did that didn't He? Mike I love this subject, I can't help but see Jesus in all of this, Praise the LORD!

Jesus has now come in his week that Daniel spoke of in Dan 9:24-27 He came to confirm the covenent etc...

What I wanted to get at was "the time of the end" when the seal would be broken.

Look at this,

Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.Revelation 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

What Daniel sealed Jesus Revealed. He opened it, "even the time of the end".

There is much more meat here, but this is a good starting point to munch on, Jesus is truly LORD.

Karl

 2006/2/25 12:54
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: What to expect?

Hi Karl,

Quote:
Every Christian on the face of the planet would like to know what is happening today and what will happen tomorrow. Preterists have the same desire as you do, however, their desire is also to place fulfilled scripture in its proper place.



That's not really what I was going after there brother. What I was attempting was the question of [i]expectation[/i]. If I understand the Preterist view correctly (And am again not forcing the label on you here) is it not that the Second Coming has already transpired in the past?
Where does that leave us now in anticipation? Not so much as prophecy per se, but what is next up on the agenda if I may use that somewhat crass way of putting it?

Had put this earlier;
Quote:
Is it the idea that the world will gradually become better and better, due to the saints overtaking if I may put it that way?

And seems we are in agreement that this is very unlikely to happen.

But this one is where I have no clear understanding according this view and again 'what to expect'?;
Quote:
In this perspective is there no expectation that the Lord will return physically to reign and rule over the new heaven and new earth?



How does it turn out ultimately?
No more tears...
The Lion lays down with the Lamb...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/2/25 13:20Profile





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