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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : You will die for your country, but will you die for Christ?

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

I will never die. Unless the rapture comes I will be able to get rid of this body of flesh, but we are promised we will never die. Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

The real I was crucified on the Cross with Christ was when He took the sin of the World in the cup in the garden. Every sin that ever was or is or will be was in that cup, that means that all my sins were in that cup and when He died at that moment when that Glorious Head fell on dead shoulders all sin was dead or His death meant nothing. The reason sin is still in the world is this world will not believe in Jesus Christ and what He did with sin. Paul believed it and he said, "Galatians 2:19-20 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

The law killed me when the fulfillment of the Law died on the Cross. We died with Him because of sin. That is why it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me. A new creature, never before the Cross has such a creature ever existed. A new life in Christ. 1 John 5:10-12 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. Death because they won't believe.

If we are born again of water and the Spirit, that is the Spirit of Christ in us the Hope of Glory, then because of Him that is in us before the Father any sins of the flesh are already taken care of and when it is revealed to when we confess them God is faithful and Just because of Jesus Christ on the Cross to forgive us and not only that but the Christ in us and the blood He shed will cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We have Christ. 1 John 5:18-20 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

That is why when we confess or agree with God that what He wants us to change is a sin, then we learn obedience by the things we suffer, but the cleansing is still there because of the Christ that is in us.

1 John 1:9-10 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and his word is not in us. I was a sinner and if I say I deserve salvation because I am a good person we make Him a Liar.

That is why we can have fellowship with Him and one another. 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

This is what we have to renew our mind to, that is the mind of Christ that brings us to God and cleanses us from all sin and keeps on cleansing until that day.

We have already died with Christ and we will never have to die again. 2Cr 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Which is the promise of gain in Christ.
Phl 1:21 For to me to live [is] Christ, and to die [is] gain. Whether we live or die does not matter we are the Lords. Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. A done deal because we believed and He is faithful and cannot deny Himself.


IN Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/2/18 21:15Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Physical or Spiritual death...?!?

Hi Christinyou...!

Quote:
I will never die. Unless the rapture comes I will be able to get rid of this body of flesh, but we are promised we will never die. Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Do you mean that you will not die [i]spiritually[/i] or in a [i]physical[/i] sense?

While in high school, there was a dishwasher who worked at the restaurant I was employed with. He was very active in his small, rural church. He asked if he could accompany my family to church one Sunday. After the service, he told me that, although he enjoyed the message, he didn't like the Pastor's "focus on death." He explained that he was "never going to die." I assumed that he meant that he believed that the Lord's return was at hand. However, he explained that the Lord promises [u]real[/u] believers that they will "overcome death."

It was very interesting because I had never heard such a doctrine before. Of course, I do not believe this. "[i]To live is Christ[/i]," Paul reasoned, "...[i]and to die is gain[/i]." Interestingly, my friend passed out during a prank at work one night (a broken stove was turned on by the circuit breaker one night, which resulted in a loud "POP" while he was in training to become a cook). A few days later, he purchased a life insurance policy (with his mother as the sole beneficiary).

Do you believe that your body will never [u]physically[/u] die? I apologize if I was over analyzing your comments.

:-)

On a side note, he was also a "holy roller." I have always heard the term as a slur referred to all believers that are serious about their faith. However, my friend told me that they literally roll down the center isle during church services when they meet together. After he told me this, I asked him if he also "picked up serpents." He looked at me with a straight face and said, "I don't have that much faith."

:-P


_________________
Christopher

 2006/2/18 21:31Profile









 Re: Physical or Spiritual death...?!?

Its hard to tell what Phillip is referring to because he mixes up his metaphors. We are all going to die physicaly unless Jesus comes back. Its that simple. And the reason? Our corrupt flesh. There is no doubt that the old man died, he was crucified on the cross and Jesus died for our sins. Yet, we still deal with the sin-nature. That is why I sin and Phillip sins.

As for the man who rolls down the aisle and believes he is not going to die, well that speaks for itself and is sad. Fear and discontentment do much damage. This man is afraid of death, and well he might be. He rolls down the ailse because Christianity is not and was not ever enough for him. There always has to be more and these people continually search for the outlandish because manna to them is boring and their lack of contentment with Calvary and the glorious presense of God will be their un-doing....................Frank

 2006/2/19 0:42
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

brethren
what is there to fear in death that we don't desire it for our savior? i'm convinced that a fear of death comes from an uncertainty of what will become of us when we die or from the knowledge that we have not made our peace with God. If Christ had to die for us, what right have we to our own lives? None, we are bought lock, stock and barrell by Him for His purposes. What right have we to think that we should be exempt from suffering and/or martyrdom if Christ wasn't?

i hear much talk of being raptured before anything crazy happens and the more i hear of it the more i am convinced that this notion is a lie of the devil. this lie is to lull us into a false sense of security where we just roll along and sit on our butts. don't get me wrong i know there will be a rapture or perhaps even more than one even but the idea that most or all Christians will escape persecution is a lie. it seems to me the Lord will take a few mature ones at first and leave the majority to come to a full ripeness in Him before they can be caught up in the heavens. Thus it seems to me that a lot of people after having seen some raptured and they themselves left behind for a time will become disillusioned with the Faith and may well renounce it and i think this is a part of the great falling away. let's not kid ourselves and think that we're not going to escape persecution because that's not happenning. i think it should be a deep desire in us all to suffer and die for the Faith if the Lord calls us to it. i can think of a no more fitting tribute to the One who died for us than for us to die in His service.

to be frank, when the Lord called me, even before He showed me what my work for Him would be, He made it plain there would be suffering and martyrdom for me in this work. of course that was a whole lot to swallow and so i told Him "Lord, your idea stinks" He didn't respond but in time i came to realize that for those that have gone before and even now are being persecuted and martyred, that the Lord didn't require such sacrifice of their own strength. i mean who in their right mind would allow anyone to beat them up or kill them. the wisdom of the world is to fight back. the wisdom of heaven is to let them go ahead, after all that is the worst the enemy can do to us and if that doesn't shake us then satan really has NO power over us. The apostles, steven (who wasn't an apostle) and all the other saints down through the ages who were killed, never resisted as far as i know, they went willingly. This was not something they did in their right mind but this was an outworking of the Lord's Holy Spirit by which they could do these things. the Lord will be whatever courage, endurance, strength and whatever else is required of us in His service, hence the idea of having Christ live in us to achieve such.

i think it would be awesome to be raptured, since i won't be, well at least not caught up in the clouds perhaps, i miss out on that exprience. however having realized that the Lord's Spirit will be the one to hold me up in the trials that are ahead i take comfort in that. at the end of it all the Lord will grant me the martyr's crown along with a lot of others out there. there's a good bunch of people in that crew, Peter, Paul Steven, James etc so i'll be in good company :-D

i've been brought to a point where i desire this crown, not in some sadomasochistic way but in the Spirit and by the Spirit of God because it is the culmination of what work the Lord has for me and heralds the beginning of eternity in His bosom with all of you and the rest of the fam... can't beat that...


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Farai Bamu

 2006/2/19 13:10Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

What did Jesus do to the fig tree? Mark 11:11-14 And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve. And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.

The Fig Tree is Jerusalem and the Temple therein. "No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it."

Then what did Jesus do to the Temple? The same as He did to the temple. Mark 11:13-15 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;

From that day to this the temple is no longer. When you look at where the temple use to stand what do you see? The Dome of the Rock.

We are not the temple of God with Christ therein and also the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit and God the Father. Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
All Three are in God's Temple, and who are we?
1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

If we are Holy temples then what does this clay pot that houses this temple have to do with Life. Absolutely nothing, except just like the Church building, when no one is in it The Presence of God is not there, but the first Christian that walks through the door bring God into the structure of wood, hay or stubble, which is a picture of how they used to build with bricks and wood. Our foundation is on the Rock That is in us. Matthew 18:18-20 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

We are the Temple of God wherein dwell Christ Himself. What can death be except an exchange of a corruptible clay pot that has been quickened to contain the Life of God Himself, for a suitable Temple which is just like Christ and His Glorious Temple, 1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Romans 6 explains all this if further study is needed.

Romans 6:1-23 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/2/19 18:34Profile









 Re:

I agree Ironman, the pre-tribulation rapture is nothing more than escapism.....Frank

 2006/3/18 22:16
h2oboy
Member



Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Frank,
Is this an attempt to start a tangent thread from an old one? I'm new so I don't know the history of any discussions concerning the 'rapture.'

Just wondering,
Jeff


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Jeff Smith

 2006/3/18 22:24Profile









 Re:

Hi Jeff
I was just replying to an old reply. I do like the subject and believe that in our lifetime we could possibly face the possibility that "if it were possible, even the elect will be deceived." I am obviously not a pre-tribber and people who are I just think it goes along with easy-believism, prosperity preaching and carnal Christianity."..........Frank

 2006/3/18 22:29
h2oboy
Member



Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Hi Frank,
Thanks for the reply. I would love to discuss the subject some time but if we were the only ones talking it would end up being mostly agreeing.
Love in Christ,
Jeff


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Jeff Smith

 2006/3/18 22:33Profile









 Re: You will die for your country, but will you die for Christ?

Who has power to lay down his own life?

 2006/3/19 8:25





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