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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Could someone interpret these verses ?

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 Re:

I saw that part when I looked into the greek. Yuppers. Good stuff.

I guess I do understand how to study the greek. Hmm. Cool stuff.

 2006/2/10 14:28









 Re:

I sure appreciate your contributions here brother Ron.

Please feel free to add any more if you feel so led.

Sincerely enjoying the meat.


God Bless you.
Annie

 2006/2/11 4:02
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

. and Abraham, of course, is the bible's definition of faith. The first time the word is used (the verb of the noun) is Gen 15:6

Abraham is the definition of earthly faith.

Jesus Christ is the definition of heavenly faith.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

"and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Abraham was not justified only righteousness because he believed God.

We are justified by the Christ that is in us, by the Faith of the Son of God.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.

Abraham's righteousness was of the Law not of Faith.

Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

I don't want my own righteousness or Abraham's but the righteousness of Christ is our need.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Not in Abraham's faith but in the faith of Jesus Christ who is our righteousness.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:


That is why Abraham's faith, that is his own worldly belief of what God has said was his reckoning of righteousness. We are only justified in the Faith and Righteousness of Christ because of His birth in us.

In Christ: Phillip, righteous and justified in and because of His Faith of Jesus Christ that is in us.


_________________
Phillip

 2006/2/11 19:44Profile









 Re:

Thank you brother Philip.
That sure covers faith alrighty. Thanks.

What I'd really like someone to exegete are these verses ...

[b][u]But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Therefore "leaving" the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection[/u]; [i]not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.[/i]
[u]And this will we do, if God permit.[/u] [/b]


I find these verse fasinating and the Author of Hebrews also fasinating for writing things like this.

God Bless y'all and my thanks.

 2006/2/11 22:22
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Christinyou's

Quote:
That is why Abraham's faith, that is his own worldly belief of what God has said was his reckoning of righteousness. We are only justified in the Faith and Righteousness of Christ because of His birth in us.


NO, we are not. That would be 'justification by regeneration' which is just as erroneous as 'justification by sanctification'. This is where your preoccupation with 'the faith of Christ' issue has led you.


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Ron Bailey

 2006/2/12 19:08Profile
jimbob
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Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

Justification
I. Holy Scripture sums up all its teachings regarding the love of God to the world of sinners, regarding the salvation wrought by Christ, and regarding faith in Christ as the only way to obtain salvation, in the article of justification. Scripture teaches that God has already declared the whole world to be righteous in Christ, Rom. 5:19; 2 Cor. 5:18-21; Rom. 4:25; that therefore not for the sake of their good works, but without the works of the Law, by grace, for Christ's sake, He justifies, that is, accounts as righteous, all those who believe, accept, and rely on, the fact that for Christ's sake their sins are forgiven. Therefore the Holy Spirit testifies through St. Paul: "There is no difference; for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus," Rom. 3:23, 24. And again: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the Law," Rom. 3:28.

II. Through this doctrine alone Christ is given the honor due Him, namely, that through His holy life and innocent suffering and death He is our Savior. And through this doctrine alone can poor sinners have the abiding comfort that God is assuredly gracious to them. We reject as apostasy from the Christian religion all doctrines whereby man's own works and merit are mingled into the article of justification before God. For the Christian religion is the faith that we have forgiveness of sins and salvation through faith in Christ Jesus, Acts 10:43.

III. We reject as apostasy from the Christian religion not only the doctrine of the Unitarians, who promise the grace of God to men on the basis of their moral efforts; not only the gross work-doctrine of the papists, who expressly teach that good works are necessary to obtain justification; but also the doctrine of the synergists, who indeed use the terminology of the Christian Church and say that man is justified "by faith," "by faith alone," but again mix human works into the article of justification by ascribing to man a co-operation with God in the kindling of faith and thus stray into papist territory.

Justification as defined by the Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod)

 2006/2/12 23:46Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

jimbob's

Quote:
Scripture teaches that God has already declared the whole world to be righteous in Christ, Rom. 5:19; 2 Cor. 5:18-21; Rom. 4:25; that therefore not for the sake of their good works, but without the works of the Law, by grace, for Christ's sake,

He justifies, that is, accounts as righteous, all those who believe, accept, and rely on, the fact that for Christ's sake their sins are forgiven.
Justification as defined by the Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod)

I am split this sentence into two parts to give the opportunity of trying to see what they are saying. The first sentence, if it stands alone, I would strongly disagree with. This is universalism.

The second implies that justificiation takes place because of confidence in a doctrine. I'm not much happier with that. Did Abraham 'believe, accept, and rely on, the fact that for Christ's sake their sins are forgiven'? The Scripture says that 'Abraham believed in the LORD and he counted it to him for righteousness'. This is personal faith in a personal God, not a doctrinal faith.


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Ron Bailey

 2006/2/13 5:20Profile
jimbob
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Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

Nothing "doctrinal" about it, just scriptural. Abraham "did not waver in ublelief but GREW strong in faith, giving glorly to God, and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was also able to perform" Romans 4:20-21.So Abraham did believe, accept, and rely on God, to me that sounds like "personal faith in a personal God". No "doctrine" there, just truth.Me thinks perhaps there is a bit of bias in your statement.

Sorry if the first part( the whole world part) sounds like universalisim to you but the scriptures quoted also sound like universalism. And here is another scripture that sounds like universalism.

1 John 2:2 "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world." Is the whole world going to be saved? Is he the propitiation for the whole world or not?

There are several scriptures that sound like universalism, but I think are pointing more towards the idea that Christ did indeed "justify" mankind to the Father on the cross, but the taking hold of that justification is by faith. If not then these statements about the "whole world" don't make sense (to me anyway).

 2006/2/13 13:48Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

"justify" means that judge declares an individual to be 'just' of the charges which have been laid against him. Justification by faith means that God 'justifies the ungodly' (not the regenerate, nor the sanctified) who place their faith in God. To say that God requires regeneration before He justifies is to put the cart before the horse.


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Ron Bailey

 2006/2/13 15:19Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

"justify" means that judge declares an individual to be 'just' of the charges which have been laid against him. Justification by faith means that God 'justifies the ungodly' (not the regenerate, nor the sanctified) who place their faith in God. To say that God requires regeneration before He justifies is to put the cart before the horse.



Amen! For that matter, it is the actual act of justification that changes the nature of man. For when God declares the sinner justified, that man is actually now [i]made[/i] justified. The decree of God to the man actually produces a change in him, and this change is regeneration.


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Jimmy H

 2006/2/13 16:15Profile





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