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seekup
Member



Joined: 2006/1/18
Posts: 14


 must we sin?

Forgive me brothers and sisters if someone has already pointed this out, I am not always blessed with the time to read everything in a well established post. I am burdened by seeing that there are those who suppose they live a sinless life. I would suggest that the human mind is incapable of understanding the paradox of a "sinless life". Christ lived outside of our limited human understanding so he was able to do so. We, on the other hand, cannot achieve a sinless life. The paradox is this, we sin out temptation of the flesh, as Christains we strive for santifacation by doing the best we can to resist the temptation to sin. We all achieve this at different levels, but resistance to all temptation is not a sinless existance. Sin is thought, word and deed that glorifies the flesh over the spirit. Not matter how much we resist, when we are tempted, we are [thinking] about the sin we are resisting, thereby sinning in thought. Not matter what deeds we resist, we cannot stop the involuntary thought of sin that comes from our flesh selves. Only Christ was able to defeat this earthly paradox and save us from our evil lives. His perfection brought his imperfect sheep to him. We remain imperfect but are protected from the evil that devours lost sheep who will not live with the shepard. The good news in Jesus is that we do not have to be sinless because we are forgiven. With this great gift comes great responsiblity to our fellow man to lead them to Jesus and to seek to live in the spirit and deny the the flesh. May God bless and keep you, I pray that we continue to reflect and debate, seeking God's glory and find understanding in the spirit. Thanks Chris
Sorry, i meant to put this into the origional post, must have hit the wrong button.

 2006/2/4 1:56Profile
Quickend
Member



Joined: 2006/1/20
Posts: 42


 Re: must we sin?

Quote:by seekup

Not matter how much we resist, when we are tempted, we are [thinking] about the sin we are resisting, thereby sinning in thought.

Please Qualify this statement with scripture.


_________________
Robert.High

 2006/2/4 2:30Profile
seekup
Member



Joined: 2006/1/18
Posts: 14


 Re:

Quickend,
Please Qualify this statement with scripture.

I may be making this too cut and dry, but this statement is my conclusion from reading Matt 5:26-29/Matt 15:16-20 and Romans 6-8.

Forgive me, I meant to present this as a personal conclusion. I realize it didn't come across that way. Thanks, Chris

 2006/2/4 5:17Profile
paula4jc
Member



Joined: 2005/1/8
Posts: 132


 Re: must we sin?

by seekup
.


Quote:
Christ lived outside of our limited human understanding so he was able to do so. as Christians we by doing the best we can to resist the temptation to sin.




I am grieved to my soul by the doctrines of the devil that are being taught in the churches today. Christ depended on the same SPIRIT that every believer has in them to achieve sinless life. He empties Himself and came to earth as man Phi 2. Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to God who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. He learned obedience by the things which he suffered Heb 5:7-14. Few among us pray and fewer obeys, so wouldn’t now if sinless life even possible.
Believers do you not have the same Spirit that gave forth the scripture? How many Spirit are there, 1Co 12:4-31? Do you not have every thing to live the spiritual and holy life that all the prophets, Jesus and disciplines lived (Eph 1:3)? What they had that you don’t? What you’re lacking Jam 1:5? You fall short of sinlessness because you walk according to the flesh. What are the fruits of the Spirit and how many can you honestly say you have, Gal 5:-26? You possess a long list of the works of the flesh, do you not? Can the flesh please God Rom 8:1-17; Col 2;3;4?

Why congregations flocking churches that teach doctrine of demons 2Pe 2; 4?
2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. 14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves

7 always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.

3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Quote:

seekup wrote:
Forgive me brothers and sisters if someone has already pointed this out, I am not always blessed with the time to read everything in a well established post. I am burdened by seeing that there are those who suppose they live a sinless life. I would suggest that the human mind is incapable of understanding the paradox of a "sinless life". Christ lived outside of our limited human understanding so he was able to do so. We, on the other hand, cannot achieve a sinless life. The paradox is this, we sin out temptation of the flesh, as Christains we strive for santifacation by doing the best we can to resist the temptation to sin. We all achieve this at different levels, but resistance to all temptation is not a sinless existance. Sin is thought, word and deed that glorifies the flesh over the spirit. Not matter how much we resist, when we are tempted, we are [thinking] about the sin we are resisting, thereby sinning in thought. Not matter what deeds we resist, we cannot stop the involuntary thought of sin that comes from our flesh selves. Only Christ was able to defeat this earthly paradox and save us from our evil lives. His perfection brought his imperfect sheep to him. We remain imperfect but are protected from the evil that devours lost sheep who will not live with the shepard. The good news in Jesus is that we do not have to be sinless because we are forgiven. With this great gift comes great responsiblity to our fellow man to lead them to Jesus and to seek to live in the spirit and deny the the flesh. May God bless and keep you, I pray that we continue to reflect and debate, seeking God's glory and find understanding in the spirit. Thanks Chris
Sorry, i meant to put this into the origional post, must have hit the wrong button


_________________
Paula

 2006/2/4 9:54Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

If you would like to keep the continuity of the other post you can copy over these replies to the thread intended;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9345&forum=35]Must we sin?[/url]

And then we can remove this one. Thanks


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Mike Balog

 2006/2/4 11:12Profile
seekup
Member



Joined: 2006/1/18
Posts: 14


 Re:

paula4jc

Thank you for your insight.

quote; I am grieved to my soul by the doctrines of the devil that are being taught in the churches today.

Just so you know, this is not a doctrine being taught at my church, nor did I learn it from anyone. It was the thoughts that occurred to me while reading the origional post, based on the verses I sighted. Having said that I have read the replies and recieved a private message reguarding my idea and I have been convinced that I am way off base. When reflecting on those verses and more scripture that has been offered to me, I realize that my reply was half-baked to say the least. As for the main idea that we are incapable of a sinless life, I find that which Quickend says, as well as my private messenger, that anything is possible when we live in the Holy Spirit and our wicked ways are overcome by the grace of Jesus Christ. I take a very valuable lesson from this post and from all of you who have felt moved to show me my error. That is that when I offer discussion it must be based on scripture and be reflected upon before I offer an idea. Also, I am humbly reminded that I have much more to learn than to teach. Pray for me, and may God bless you. Chris

 2006/2/10 5:44Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: must we sin?

Quote:

The paradox is this, we sin out temptation of the flesh, ...

Sin is thought, word and deed that glorifies the flesh over the spirit. Not matter how much we resist, when we are tempted, we are [thinking] about the sin we are resisting, thereby sinning in thought....



To be merely tempted is not to sin in itself. Simply thinking about whatever you are tempted with is not sin. Otherwise, Christ who was tempted in all things as we are, sinned. Yet, this is not what the Scriptures say. The Scriptures say that Christ was tempted in all things as we are, but was without sin.

Quote:

The good news in Jesus is that we do not have to be sinless because we are forgiven.



On the contrary, the Good News is that because we are forgiven we are now sinless... that is, not guilty in the sight of God. When Jesus forgave us of our sins, he actually forgave them. When he cleansed us of our sins, he actually cleansed us of them, every last one.

See, the Father doesn't just declare us not guilty and justified, without there being a change in us. When God declares us to be justified, we actually become what He declares us to be. This is regeneration. Thus, though we be the chief of sinners, we are saints by calling.

As Romans 8:12 boldly declares, we are no longer obligated to the flesh to live according to the flesh, for as Romans 6:6 teaches, we have been crucified with Christ, and have been freed from our sinful nature.

As John Wesley most wonderfully once said, we know of know Gospel but salvation from sin.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2006/2/10 11:10Profile









 Re:


I really hate to ask this question because we will probably end up starting a whole new thread but what does it mean to be tempted? :-o Is it being tempted to act on the thought of acting or just the thought? :-o Sorry! :-)

 2006/2/10 11:18
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

...what does it mean to be tempted...



James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Temptation arises when a desire in ones flesh feeds upon a certain idea/scenario. Whatever various circumstance arises, the flesh mulls over it, ponders it, plays with it.

It begins when a thought enters the head and attempts to impregnate an open heart. If this small seed of thought can make its way into the heart, then sin is conceived and gives birth to death. This tempting thought ultimately appeals to what looks good to us, much as Satan deceived Eve to eat of forbidden fruit, because it looked good to eat, to make one wise, to make one like God.

This is why Paul says we must put on the "helmet of salvation" in Ephesians 6. The war for our souls is waged on the battlefield of our minds. This is where we must "take every thought captive" and present it to obedience for Christ.

This is also why some things are tempting for you, and not for me. I've never been tempted to try drugs nor had any desire to get drunk. Yet many people seriously struggle with substance abuse issues. Ultimately, such things for whatever reasons, "look good" for them, but don't "look good" for me.


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Jimmy H

 2006/2/10 11:31Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

It begins when a thought enters the head and attempts to impregnate an open heart.



To further expound on this thought as well, this is why it is crucial for us to cultivate the fear of the Lord in our own lives. As Proverbs 8:12 says, the fear of the Lord is the hatred of evil. To live in victory over temptation, we must see to it that we are entirely sold out to Christ and that our hearts are entirely His. For so long as we have some affection in our hearts for some sinful activity, this is where Satan will assault us the most.

We must be totally commited in our hearts and decide ahead of time that no matter what we face, we will obey the Lord. Our heart must be singly His. For if our hearts are decided beforehand, then when the temptation comes our way, our response to temptation will be predetermined.

However, if one has a spot in their heart that is "open to suggestions" and isn't decided before hand how one will respond to temptation when it comes, you will probably stumble when the situation presents itself.

This reminds me of a time when I was younger, and going on my first date. I was concerned at this time that I might have sex if the occasion presented itself. Thinking that I might have sex, I thought I should buy a condem "just in case."

You see, at this time, I was flirting with sin. I had decided that though I wasn't going to push to have sex with this girl, if she showed any interest in having it however, I would gladly participate. But this should not have been to begin with. I should have hated sexual sin in my heart, for it was something for which Jesus Christ suffered on a cross for. In my heart I should have determined before hand that having sex was just something that was frankly not an option. If it had presented itself, in my heart I should have already decided beforehand that I was going to be like Joseph should the situation have presented itself, and fled from the scenario like running from a burning flame.

There should have been no, "just in case..." in my heart. So long as I have a hidden card up my sleeve that I can play "just in case," then there is something in my heart that should not be, a place that could cause me to stumble in my walk with the Lord.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2006/2/10 11:51Profile





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