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Eliel
Member



Joined: 2005/12/13
Posts: 15
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

 Re: Verichip forum

Interesting topics. I think this is an important issue that needs to be brought up and discussed both more and less.

More in some cases, because some people have no knowledge or understanding of the subject matter or the importance of it, and as such are underprepared.

Less in some cases, because there are many "Chicken Little" churches/groups/internet sites/prohets, who all they do is predict doom, without bringing people that much closer to God.

While I read through some of the information on the website shown by MeAgain, and some of it was well thought-out and sound, but some is shaky, and there is a lot of warning without a real sense of God's presence or grace, which I felt compelled to make a post about. If you want, you can find it here...

http://www.theverichip.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84

Maybe I was too harsh on them, but that was simply what I felt led to say. There is a form of godliness there, but not a wholeness, which distresses me. I was somewhat blunt, but it is my prayer that my words bring more health to the community, even if it brings a little hurt.

Maybe I overstepped my bounds. Only God knows that. But personally, I wouldn't have too much to do with that forum as is, just because of the state it is in.

No offense to anyone from that forum that reads this or it meant, of course.


_________________
Matthew Peterson

 2006/2/5 9:13Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Thank you for the word

Quote:
I felt compelled to make a post about. If you want, you can find it here...Maybe I was too harsh on them, but that was simply what I felt led to say. There is a form of godliness there, but not a wholeness, which distresses me.



Matt, I read your word to that forum, and I sensed that it was a genuine word that flows from the heart of God - what I believe is a true prophetic word and speaks to us as well. I don't sense any harshness.

Satan has been a master at sidetracking God's people - and he uses our interest in scripture to his advantage. When we get our eyes off of Christ, we quickly get on the wrong path, even if it is following after a scripture portion.

I wonder why there is such a fixation on things in the future when we don't even have things in the present right with God. Perhaps it is because we DON'T WANT to look at what's going on in our hearts right now. Like that bottle of whiskey - a shot of "end-times" speculation gives us a sense of escape and adventure.

Or maybe there is a desire to feel like we are in control. After all, we want to be prepared, don't we.

Probably though, you are right: Fear is a powerful motivating factor.

If the giants, like David W. can falter - who are any of us to think that we are beyond deception. I guess our failures can keep us close to God, and keep us from going too far on tangents.

I think Ironman is right: we must get ready for tough times. I also feel that our preparation involves getting our hearts and lives purified and Christ-centered. If that is not happening, we will easily be fooled by Satan.

Scripture clearly tells us to keep our focus on Christ. That is the safest, and best way to gain the understanding that we need - revealed by his Spirit.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/2/5 10:15Profile









 Re: Microchips for Christians?

Quote:
I'm probably asking for a good cuffing here, but I really think there is too much speculation among our prophets. The very voices that are telling us to be separate from the world seem to feel authorized to mix scripture with daily headlines that range from unsubstantiated short-wave broadcasts to amateur blog-sites. In addition to being spiritual leaders many prophets today also appear as qualified experts on economics, technology and military movements.

..... and I believe it's weakening [b]the better mission of a prophet which is to direct eyes upward, the visibility of Jesus and the Father...[/b]

... stick to the spiritual realities behind the movements of earthly kingdoms...

MC,

I don't know why you thought we might be distressed by your focus on the Lord, His word, and tuning into the Spirit for our understanding.... but, I hope it's not a measure of disillusionment with attempts to understand 'the signs of' our 'times'? Jesus was not impressed that His natural generation were so bad at this particular feat, and wept over Jerusalem for not having understood their significance. (Luke 19:41 - 44)

Your points are well-founded. Thank you.

 2006/2/5 11:59
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
but they do not add to these missions speculations about things they really can't be sure of



There it is in a nutshell. Maybe there are many things we can be [i]convinced[/i] of, but [i]surety[/i]... That is the danger that makes these types of 'prophecies', when they are couched that way just that, dangerous. Add a "Thus sayeth the Lord" ...

Think you are dead on MC.

Just as well concur with;
Quote:
I wonder why there is such a fixation on things in the future when we don't even have things in the present right with God. Perhaps it is because we DON'T WANT to look at what's going on in our hearts right now.



Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: [b]see that ye be not troubled[/b]: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Out of all the parables towards this end the tense from our Lord was to watch and be ready. To be found faithful. If this isn't our condition now, the "if's" and "when's" will be met with a far more devastating effect.

Another related posting on this here:
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=3327&forum=48&post_id=&refresh=Go]FDA approves computer chip implants for humans[/url]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/2/5 12:14Profile









 Re: Microchip implants, GPS and Jesus

As I said, I too was very surprised to find an actual forum dedicated solely (basically) to the chip ... but by the same token, it is 'still' a free country.

I haven't looked at the Forum yet, but I may later.
I know how I feel about the chip, and do believe it will be part of the "buying and selling" mode that we'll be put in the position of choosing or not choosing.

But I did not post that as a way for those here, who don't like eschatology, to find a way to mock their way out of it.
Yes, even I was surprised and all, about finding that Forum, but I imagine those are young people, doing the best they can with what they have.
If they believe it will eventually be the mark, then I can understand their wanting to keep watch of it's progress ... but for the adults on here, to use this as one more reason to throw out Eschatology, as has been the inclination, that too is just as foolish, if not more so, then what those kids are doing over there.

I believe you give a "Topic" as much attention as the Bible itself has ... Period.
And if that's the case .... then eschatology and 'this' forum are the ones coming up lacking, not a bunch of kids doing their best to stay apprised of what may very well be the clincher to eternal life and death, in whatever near future.

Sorry guys, but when you give eschatology less focus than the N.T. does, then that is just as self-righteous, pious or half-sighted as you've accused others of being.

:-(

 2006/2/5 14:12
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: Re

Quote:
Sorry guys, but when you give eschatology less focus than the N.T. does, then that is just as self-righteous, pious or half-sighted as you've accused others of being.



MeAgain! :-)

Just to be clear about the particular point I was trying to convey...my concern isn't over eschatology Let's look for the season of His coming!

And I am not opposed to a lively conversation about microchips and how they might relate to the mark of the beast over a cup of coffee.

My point was simply to ask those who desire to speak as a prophet to exercise more discipline...they are not as free to speculate as the others. They may have private fears and speculations...but publicly perhaps they censor themselves.

I know it may seem a contradiction...but perhaps a prophet isn't defined only by what he says..but also by the things be does not bother to talk about. Afterall, if a prophet can not talk about the heart of the matter then who will? Are microchips and the value of the American dollar the heart of the matter?

The reason I offered my critique, with some apprehension I assure you, is that people like me take the words of prophetic minded people to heart. (I can think of no greater respect given.) I say this lamentably because, in my experience, I have read too many "prophetic" predictions of worry that never came to pass. Only then do I recognize the source of those words...from a fearful heart like my own.

Yet I do not call my self a prophet. However I am a father in my household. I do not daily talk to the children about the things that daddy fears about. "Children we may be homeless tomorrow if I don't recieve a phone call from that client today." or "Wife, I read that the price of oil is rising. I think we shall starve this winter."

Yes, it looks like we are in for some harsh times in the future. In those times, we will need confident leadership...not fretful speculators.

So, to be sure...I am not being mocking or disrespectful. I am asking people who speak for the Lord to say only what they are absolutely sure of from the Lord and His word. It is my concern that they might be exceeding this simple boundary.

As we know, forum posts convey neither body language nor tone...so only the worst 10% of my intention may be coming through here. So please see me not as a mocker pointing his finger. (I've never used the term "false" or implied that we should "expose" anyone or the like. We are family here and I am just a brother, not a parent.) MY body language is as a brother coming to the family speaking in sanguine tone with deep respect for the man or woman who desires to prophecy. "Please learn to tell the difference between what is growing in your heart through fear or anger and what is placed there through the Lord. Build up our faith. The Body needs faith in this hour. Repent we must...but everything by faith in the soverign Lord."

Blessings all,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2006/2/5 17:30Profile









 Re:

Hia Compton, I agree with you on these folks who "predict when" the economy will fall, etc..

Those type things are tiring for me.
Agreed and I wasn't pointing my post at you.

But I think we need to cut others some slack, and I want to give you a better answer than this, but my speghetti water is boiling and I've gotta go get dinner on the table.


"I'll be back !"
:-D

Love ya man,
Annie

 2006/2/5 17:40
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 cuffing bro mike :)

bro mike

Quote:
I'm probably asking for a good cuffing here, but I really think there is too much speculation among our prophets. The very voices that are telling us to be separate from the world seem to feel authorized to mix scripture with daily headlines that range from unsubstantiated short-wave broadcasts to amateur blog-sites. In addition to being spiritual leaders many prophets today also appear as qualified experts on economics, technology and military movements.



i agree with you in that there is indeed much speculation going on among today's prophets which leads to the spouting out of things which are not of God. that being said the Lord is indeed speaking to some concerning what is going on now as it pertains to what the future holds and we have to take the time out to sift the wheat from the tares and i think we aren't as dilligent about that as we like to think.

Quote:
..and I believe it's weakening the better mission of a prophet which is to direct eyes upward, the visibility of Jesus and the Father...not secret insight into geo-politics of other nations or into our storage freezers.



the role of the prophet is largely misunderstood and limited to the predicting of the future. while there is some truth in this, the prophet is the revelation to men of the heart of God, the very feelings of God toward us and sometimes that does involve the prediction or should i say the telling of what the future will be (prediction seems to imply guessing to me) if the Lord decides to teach geopolitics to one of His prophets or to reveal to him on the geoplitical level what God is doing what is it to us?



Quote:
During the Revolutionary War it is recorded that members of the church thought King George was the anti-Christ. And we all know that people thought Hitler was the end. But hindsight is 20/20 and our current prophets know better.



you know i've heard people say that everyone and their mama is the the antichrist. i think people get irresponsible in leaving out certain things about him, such as him presiding over a one world government, brokering a peace deal with israel for 7 yrs, don't remember hitler, stalin or kissinger doing any of this.



Quote:
We know they may very well be a nuclear war or financial crash in future human history. I was learning about these things from unregenerate professors in college. See the movie Koyannistatsi or read the book "Entropy:the greenhouse Effect."...are these men also prophets?



well bro mike, it's not a matter is "may well be" but a matter of when. and your statement about learning such things from unregenerate professors in college and asking if they were prophets seems more an excuse to not take heed and see that perhaps there is something going on here. if the so called "experts" whose opinions we so value (sometimes more than God's if we may be honest here) say that there is coming a terrible economic collapse and war shortly thereafter, and the prophets of the Lord are saying similar things should we not therefore take heed and seek the Lord on it rather than just brush it off?

Quote:
Forgive my bluntness but I think the prophet does not speculate about such things. The examples of Jeremiah, Amos and others not withstanding, the prophet may indeed warn the people about the holiness of God and agains t the injustice of a society, but they do not add to these missions speculations about things they really can't be sure of. Instead stick to the spiritual realities behind the movements of earthly kingdoms...don't try to speculate about Iran and such. In all likehood you will be wrong, or mostly wrong and your testimony as a prophet for Christ will be tainted.



i agree the prophet doesn't speculate about such things but if the Lord reveals it to him they we best take heed. we have the example of Jeremiah and Amos as you said who were well aware of the geoplitics of the day and so to me it seems the Lord will raise up prophets who have the same mantle with a knowledge also of today's geopolitics. amid all the hubbub we have to sift through it all and see what is of the Lord and what isn't and hold fast to what is God's and discard what's not and that's a lot harder than tossing it all out window...

bro mike the Lord's been showing me of what is to come. i didn't ask for it or want it at all. in fact when i got saved i was content to be a regular Christian but God has other plans. i didn't go to Him and say "Lord please use me for this thing or that thing" in fact i didn't want any of the drama that comes with all this at all so when the Lord started showing me these things i was like "you have the wrong guy Lord" i'm not interested in geopolitics or policy or any of this other mess but the Lord is steady showing me how it fits into what He's doing to restore His Church. the Lord has shown me things by vision and other means in the Spirit of Iran, this nation, Israel and so on and i thought i was losing my mind. since then the Lord has been breaking it down in terms i can grasp and relating it all to what's going on in the world today and as i said earlier, the article billy7 posted which i pasted here only served to confirm the truth of what the Lord already showed me instead of showing i was being led astray. i guess i'm not as crazy as i thought as much as i would like to think i am. i've asked the Lord on many occasions "why do i need to know this and why have you called me to this work coz i don't want it" the response always speaks of the Lord's sovereignty in whom He'll call to what work.

as with all things, let us take them before the Lord and have Him try them for us, let us be very diligent in this brethren because i fear we dismiss and permit too much based more on what we feel than what the Lord says.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/2/5 18:03Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

sis diane

Quote:
I wonder why there is such a fixation on things in the future when we don't even have things in the present right with God. Perhaps it is because we DON'T WANT to look at what's going on in our hearts right now. Like that bottle of whiskey - a shot of "end-times" speculation gives us a sense of escape and adventure.



now you know how i feel about this issue! we spend a lot of time straining at gnats and instead we swallow camels, or perhaps we strain at gnats so WE CAN swallow our camels...in all things we need to seek the Lord and especially concering our own hearts. if we spent as much time with the Lord and let Him denounce the sins we're guilty of as we do denouncing the sins of others, we'd not be in a situation where we're seen to be hypocrites. We have to have a balance and that balance is dictated by God Himself which means we have to follow the leadings of the Spirit of God. like you said part of the preparation for what is coming is a concercration of our very beings to Christ, a purification of our filthy hearts, a confrontation with the sins and demons we harbour within that impede our witness and indeed our walk with God.

Lord be our courage and wisdom in this time that we may be concecrated to you in these days. AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/2/5 18:17Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro mike

Quote:
So, to be sure...I am not being mocking or disrespectful. I am asking people who speak for the Lord to say only what they are absolutely sure of from the Lord and His word. It is my concern that they might be exceeding this simple boundary.



i feel you there and agree totally. those called to the prophetic work and saying "Thus sayeth the Lord" need to say just what the Lord told them to say no matter how outlandish or far-fetched it may seem.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/2/5 18:21Profile





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