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Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
How can you repent of sin if you are not truly responsible for it?



Repentance is not for sinful acts as such and committing to keeping the law. This is not repentance.

Repentace is from the tree of the knowlege of good and evil to the Tree of Life which is Christ.

Repentance is from independance from God and unbelief to God to recieve from Him the abundance of Grace and the gift of rightousness.

Repentance is from self rightousness to Christ who is made unto us both wisdom from God, rightousness, sanctification and redemption.

Repentance is from a life of Self dependence, Self realization, Self rightousness, and Self expression to dependance upon God who is our rightousness in Christ.

Repentance brings us to God to recieve from Him the abundance of Grace and the gift of rightousness. It brings us out of Adam into Christ and brings into us all Christ is and All Christ has accomplished.

Repentace brings us independant self rightouse rebels to the end of ourselves to cry out to God and recieve the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, to regenerate us and to make us sons of God with His life and Nature.

Repentance brings into us the Faith of Christ and Eternal LIfe. It brings us into Christ who died to the Law on the Cross haveing fulfilled its requirements and brings into us His resurrection Life which manifests itself in holy living which expressed Christ who is within us as the Spirit.

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/28 13:23Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Repentance

Quote:
Repentance is not for sinful acts as such and committing to keeping the law. This is not repentance.

Repentace is from the tree of the knowlege of good and evil to the Tree of Life which is Christ.

Repentance is from independance from God and unbelief to God to recieve from Him the abundance of Grace and the gift of rightousness.

Repentance is from self rightousness to Christ who is made unto us both wisdom from God, rightousness, sanctification and redemption.

Repentance is from a life of Self dependence, Self realization, Self rightousness, and Self expression to dependance upon God who is our rightousness in Christ.

Repentance brings us to God to recieve from Him the abundance of Grace and the gift of rightousness. It brings us out of Adam into Christ and brings into us all Christ is and All Christ has accomplished.

Repentace brings us independant self rightouse rebels to the end of ourselves to cry out to God and recieve the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, to regenerate us and to make us sons of God with His life and Nature.



These are words of life and hope.
Diane


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Diane

 2006/1/28 13:28Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: questionable logic

Quote:
That David's conception was considered illegitimate, ...on his mother’s. David’s mother’s name is not mentioned. David is not shown with the sons of Jesse when Samuel came to anoint them. David’s brothers seem embarrassed and angry in his presence.



Is this not an unbiblical way of explaining David's words in Psalm 51 "surely I was sinful at birth, from the time my mother conceived me??????

I am trying to summerize the philosophy of Jesse Morrell, and am wondering how that would affect the ministry of this 20 yo energetic street preacher. Any thoughts?
Diane


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Diane

 2006/1/28 13:35Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Amen Diane,

It is evidence that this one must twist the plain revelation of the Bible to promote his legalistic religion.

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/28 13:38Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
God’s greatest problem is summed up in one little word: S-I-N. Heaven is at battle stations today because sin has invaded the human race and the moral Universe. It is high time the Church knew her enemy! Her first enemy is not the Devil, it is not death, it is not despair. Her enemy is SIN, and unless she learns to understand it, face it and deal with it, God can never grant us a visitation from on high to turn our nations back to Him.



There are several fallacies in this opening statement. It is said that God's battle is with sin, and that "heavnes battle is to turn the nations back to Him."

The nations were never under Him but under the prince of this world.

But the first point is that God's battle is with sin which has envaded the "moral universe".

But as we read the record of Genesis, what we see is that God created man in His image and likenss and placed him before the Tree of Life that he might 'freely eat." A study of this and comparison with Revelation 21-22 shows that the Tree of Life represents God's Eternal Life. God intended man to eat of this tree to recieve the Eternal Life of God into Himself. God created man to be a vessel and container of God to be His expression on the earth.

What was man's sin? It was eating of the Tree of the knowlege of good and evil to "become as God knowing good and evil".

The signifigance of "original sin" was a choice to be an independant, self realized being knowing good and evil. That is not just evil but good and evil.

Man's original sin is to choose not a life of dependence upon God by partaking of God and recieving God, but a Self realized independant life apart from the Life of God.

This is the "original sin". This brought the whole race into an independant fallen condition. One which seeks to be both "good and evil" in independance from God.

What is repentance? It is repentance from the tree of the knowlege of good and evil to the Tree of Life. It is turning from Self realizaiton, self exaltation, Self rightousness and independant living.

Christ died on the Cross to redeem us from sin. His redemption is judicial meeting the requirements of God's Holiness, God's rightousness, And God's glory.

And in resurrection Christ is to us the Tree of Life regenerating us on the basis of His judicial redemption and bringing the Life of God into us.

The gospel is not repent of breaking the law and return to keeping the law. The gospel is repentance from an independant Life apart from God. It is repentance from our own self rightousness.

According to Galatians, God gave the Law to reveal to us our inability to keep it. The Law shows us that we have no capacity to abe holy and rightouse in our selves. It turns us to Christ to be redeemed, forgiven, restored, regenerated, and recievers of Eternal Life which is in Christ.

It brings the Holy One, Christ into us to be our rightousness, our holiness, and our everything. It brings us to a place Adam never enjoyed, He never ate of the Tree of Life and after the fall was banned and barred from it. Adam never had the Life of God. But we, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus have not only the forgiveness of sins but also regeneration and the indwelling Life of God to make us not just redeemed creatures but children of God with His Life and nature to be His many sons conformed to the image of the First Born Son of God.


This writer would have us to turn from evil to good. To turn from sin to self rightousness. Both are fruits from the same tree. He would have us turn from one branch to another. From the branch of evil to good. Form imorality to morality.

But God's way is to turn us from Self to Christ. Form both evil and good to God. To recieve the Life of God to be the expression of God in Christ.

This person in his quote of Romans 7 ignores the preceeding verses which say:

"You have died to the law through the body of Christ that you might be joined to Another, even to Him who was raised from the dead that you might bear fruit unto God."

Graftedbranch



 2006/1/28 14:17Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: a practical note on being born sinners

Are we born sinners?

Do children have to be taught to lie? No.

Do children have to be taught to be selfish? No.

Do children obey out of their natural disposition? no.

Children must be taught not to lie but tell the truth.

Children must be taught to share and not be selfish.

Children must be diciplined to obey.

Why is this? Because they are by nature sinners and rebels. If left to themselves will they grow up into godly men loving God and obeying the law of God? No.

A flower which has the life and nature of a flower if given water and air and sunshine will grow up and blossem into a beautiful flower because it has the life and nature of a flower.

But if left to ourselves we will never grow up into godly law keeping rightouse people.

Only by "partaking of the Divine Nature" in Christ by the Spirit do we grow up to express the Life and nature of God.

Are men holy by nature? No. We are unholy. Do we love rightousness by nature? No. we love sin. Cna we by the exercise of our will become holy and rightouse? No. We do not have holiness in us. We don't have rightousness in us. And even if we desrie to be such, we have no capacity.

Apart from Christ and the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus we have no way, We have no ability, we have no sollution to our situation. We are slaves of sin and death.

"If a law had been given that could give life, then rightousness would be by the Law."

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/28 14:53Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
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 Re:

graftedbranch's (just parts)

Quote:
Repentance is not for sinful acts as such and committing to keeping the law. This is not repentance.

Repentance is from a life of Self dependence, Self realization, Self rightousness, and Self expression to dependance upon God who is our rightousness in Christ.

I think this is too sweeping a statement. I think you are right in what you affirm but mistaken in what you deny ie.I agree with what you say 'repentance' is, but not what you say it is not. ;-)

The issue that is at the heart of this is 'original sin' which in the traditional understanding of this teaching is a 'disposition' rather than an occasion. Jesse, quoting Winkie Pratney is concentrating on the individual's responsibility for his own sin and for the effect of his own sin on his character and destiny. This is a necessary emphasis but it doesn't really answer the question about 'original sin'

Repentance too is both an occasion and a disposition. Repentance is most certainly required for "sinful acts".“Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.”(Acts 8:22, KJVS) This response of Peter to Simon the Sorcerer is a single example but the scriptures constantly reveal that people were to repent of 'sinful acts'. This aspect of 'repentance' is part of 'confessing' our sin. The Greek word translated 'confess' in 1 John 1:9 means to 'acknowledge', literally to 'say the same word'. This is a man agreeing with his 'accuser' and his 'accuser' is the Spirit of God. This recognition of culpability is the basis of 'conviction' and 'repentance'. We see it very plainly in the 'confession' of a prodigal king and of a prodigal son.“Against thee, thee only, have I sinned,” (Psa. 51:4a, KJVS)

“And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.” (Luke 15:21, KJVS)The concept 'I have sinned... against thee' is the vital ingredient of Biblical repentance. "I have sinned' is a personal 'acknowledgment' of culpability ie blame-worthiness.

This is not a man saying 'I am a sinner' that is a further step. This next step is where a man, and only by divine revelation, begins to see what is 'in' him, not just his actions but his disposition. Although there are several examples of 'congenital sin' in the OT the doctrine of 'congenital sin' only comes clearly into focus in the NT. This is a mercy of God. If the diagnosis were given before the remedy were available it could surely only result in despair.


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Ron Bailey

 2006/1/28 15:01Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

You are right brother. Sin is defined as many things in the Bible. It is disobedience to the law, it is unbelief (whatsoever does not proceed from faith is sin, etc.)

But what I outlined is the essence of sin. We must deal with sin daily as believers confessing them and appropriating the Blood of Christ.

But Christ came to deal with more than our sins but sin itself in its essence and it's essence is Self and independance from God. All sin finds it's roots here. In our fallen human sinfull life which loves sin.

But the root of sin is self. And self is the product of Satan's infusion of his corruption in our nature through the tree of the knowlege of good and evil.

The Blood of Christ deals with our sins but the Cross of Christ deals with the sinner terminating the Old man who is a sinner on the cross and in resurrection He brought into being a New creation.

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/28 15:19Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Tree of Good and ....

Quote:
The signifigance of "original sin" was a choice to be an independant, self realized being knowing good and evil. That is not just evil but good and evil.


GB, do you mind expounding on this thought. I've never understood it. Does it say that we wish to know and do good (not only evil), only APART from dependency on God.

I have to admit that I know atheists who do a lot of good, they are quite ultruistic, and can be more consciensious and loving than those who claim to know God.
It seems rediculous to tell them that their benevolent gesture is totally evil, and contains NO good. How would that help them see their need for God? It would only make us appear like followers of a crazy religion.

Quote:
Repentance is not for sinful acts as such and committing to keeping the law.


Would this sentence not be more accurate if it had the word MERELY inserted in it. ie Repentance is not MERELY for sinful acts.... (at least that is how I assumed it to mean)
Diane


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Diane

 2006/1/28 16:15Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
I have to admit that I know atheists who do a lot of good, they are quite ultruistic, and can be more consciensious and loving than those who claim to know God.



Lev. 2:2 Then he shall bring it to Aaron's sons the priests, and he shall take from it his handful of its fine flour and of its oil with all its frankincense. And the priest shall burn it as its memorial portion on the altar, an offering by fire, a satifying fragrance to Jehovah.

2:11 No meal offering that you present to Jehovah shall be made with leaven, for you shall not burn any leaven or any honey as an offering by fire to Jehovah.

2:12 And every offering of your meal offering you shall season with salt and you shall not omit the salt of the covenant of your God from your meal offering" with all your offerings you shall present salt."

Sister, I believe you have hit on a very good point. There are in fact many unbelievers who rival believers in their "good deeds". They do many good things and have "good intentions" and are very altruistic and self sacraficing.

We take a wrong position in trying to convince them that what they are doing is not good but evil. It is not evil. It is good. But it is good from the wrong source.

God does not look at the deed but the source from which it comes. It is a fruit of the Spirit? Is it the product of faith? Is it of the New Creation?

Both human good and evil flow from the same source. The Tree of the knowlege of Good and Evil. It is easy for us Christians to deny evil, but what about our good things? What about our natural affection and our natural disposition to help and do good deeds?

These things need to be resisted as well. We are called to live by Christ, to eat Christ, to feed on Christ and to deny our soul life whether good or bad.

We need the Spirit's enlightenment to see our natural goodness is just the Honey which God said was not to be in the meal offering. The Meal offering is to be of Olive Oil (the Spirit) the fine flower (Christ's humanity) frankincense (the fragerance of His resurrection) and Salt (The Cross). But honey as well as leaven is excluded.

Honey is our natural goodness. Leaven is sin. Both are to be excluded in the meal offering which is acceptable to God.

God wants neither our natural goodness nor our evil sinfulness. He wants Christ.

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/28 16:30Profile





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