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allhavsinned
Member



Joined: 2005/8/1
Posts: 201
North West England

 Do we grow in heaven?

My question is this; do we grow in heaven?

when we get there, i realise we will all be like Him (1 John 3:2), but will we be different to each other in our standing?

The reason I ask is this, if we continue to grow in heaven, or we are perfected to some indescribable status, then why should we make every effort to grow down here.
But, if when we get to glory, we remain at the level of achievement we atained here and there is no further way of self improvement, then it is VITAL that we grow as much as we can while we live in time.

Let me illustrate what I am thinking...

The thief on the cross, he got into heaven at the last minute and couldn't be said to be an experienced Christian. John Wesley, on the other hand, was a man of God and gave up his whole life to become Christ like. In heaven how will they be different from one another?
Will John have a big house and swimming pool a few doors down from the apostle Paul?
Will the thief be the pool cleaner for John Wesley and live in a 2up 2down miles from the shops?
Will John be a boss over a host of angels and the thief the guy who passes out the sandels?
Or will John be an adult with all the understanding and abilities of a fully grown person, while the thief is a small child who, though happy in himself, is just not capable of the complex interactions that are available to those who are much older in Christ. And will he (the thief) be like that forever?

If we all grow up and end up exactly the same in heaven why should we work so hard to be Christ like here.
But if this is the only oppertunity we have to grow in Christ then we had better pull our fingers out and get working or else we may forever be as simple children and miss out for ever on a greater understanding of Him.

I hope I have made my question clear. I just wanted a biblical perspective from you good people.

Thanks in advance

Ste


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Ste

 2006/1/27 0:16Profile
madmatg
Member



Joined: 2004/5/25
Posts: 96
asia

 Re: Do we grow in heaven?

QUOTE:
If we all grow up and end up exactly the same in heaven why should we work so hard to be Christ like here.


I know this answer is gonna seem oversimple and dum but the best way i can know for a reason why we are supposed to work so hard, is not that we will gain or lose something. but that, as christians, God redeemed us from our rebellion; so now when he lets us know concretely his will ie. Paul says:
Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.
(1Co 15:58)
so we, like good soldiers, receive our marching orders and we obey them because we believe in our leadership; because we are sold out on our belief.
I know this is kind of impractical because technically this should be applied in all situations and it's oh so NOT easy, near impossible, to continually spit on our flesh and obey this "slavedriver" as the flesh will so quickly say. but thats my two cents.

God bless so that we may bless God

Phil 2:10-11


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matt

 2006/1/27 0:49Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
If we all grow up and end up exactly the same in heaven why should we work so hard to be Christ like here.



The Bible gives us a completely different senario. IN the end. we all who are redeemed will be conformed to the image of Christ as His eternal Bride as the New Jeruselalem. But in between today and the Eternal age is the age of the Kingdom which is the age of reward to those who are matured in the Divine Life, who suffer with Christ today that we might reign with Him.

There is reward and dicipline for believers. And it is based on our growth in life in this age. To those who go on with the Lord, run the race, fight the good fight, and finish their course, there is the reward of the Kingdom and the comming age. But to those slothful servants who wast their talents, who deal unfaithfully with their fellow slaves, and who do not go on to maturity, there is the dicipline of the Lord outside the Kingdom where there will be weeping and knashing of teeth.

"To him who overcomes I will give to eat of the Tree of Life which is in the paradise of God"

"We must all stand before the jugement seat of Christ"

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/27 1:47Profile









 Re: Judgment Seat of Christ- the Bema

Graftedbranc said:

"There is reward and dicipline for believers. And it is based on our growth in life in this age. To those who go on with the Lord, run the race, fight the good fight, and finish their course, there is the reward of the Kingdom and the comming age. But to those slothful servants who wast their talents, who deal unfaithfully with their fellow slaves, and who do not go on to maturity, there is the dicipline of the Lord outside the Kingdom where there will be weeping and knashing of teeth.

"To him who overcomes I will give to eat of the Tree of Life which is in the paradise of God"

"We must all stand before the jugement seat of Christ"

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever's response: Graftedbranc, you seem to indicate that specific believers will experience "weeping and knashing of teeth"?

I have always considered that anyone who does experience "weeping and knashing of teeth" is going to hell, and is not saved.

Also, the judgment seat of Christ is a judgment of rewards, not punishment. Anyone that comes before this judgment seat is already saved and only his works are examined.

What say you, Graftedbranc?

God bless,

Stever

 2006/2/12 8:48
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3233
Texas

 Re:

I personally get to get the earth down good then I will start wondering what i'll be doing in Heaven, I would think with streets of gold and no crying or illness it's got to be better than here no matter if you grow or not, even if you don't I am sure you will still feel 10' tall. :-P


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Mr. Bill

 2006/2/12 9:47Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3233
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

Graftedbranc wrote:
There is reward and dicipline for believers. And it is based on our growth in life in this age. To those who go on with the Lord, run the race, fight the good fight, and finish their course, there is the reward of the Kingdom and the comming age. But to those slothful servants who wast their talents, who deal unfaithfully with their fellow slaves, and who do not go on to maturity, there is the dicipline of the Lord outside the Kingdom where there will be weeping and knashing of teeth.



Can you point out scripture that speaks of this I think this might be interpretation. :-?


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Mr. Bill

 2006/2/12 9:51Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Also, the judgment seat of Christ is a judgment of rewards, not punishment. Anyone that comes before this judgment seat is already saved and only his works are examined.



I am not sure where we get this notion. It is generally because we fail to separate being "eternally saved" from the Kingdom.

The Kingdom is a reward and there is discipline as the Lord clearly demonstrates in all the "parables of the Kingdom" which do not refer to perishing in the lake of fire but the comming age of the manifestion of the Kingdom of God for 1000 years.

We are told at the judgement seat of Christ our works shall be judged as to what sort they are and the "fire will show it" and what is of wood, hay and stubble will be consumed but "he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire.

Our difficulty is that most do not see a distinction between the Kingdom and the Eternal Age of the New Jeruselem in the New Earth (Rev. 21-22). These are not the same.

And most assume that the reward of the Kingdom is for all regenerated believers but as one example in Romans 8:17 Paul says, "if we are children, then heirs also, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ if so be that we suffer with Him that we may also be glorified with Him".

Here we are told that to be regenerated is to be born of God and be a child of God and therefore an heir of God. But to be a "joint heir with Christ" we must "suffer with Him that we also might reign with Him.

To be born of God qualifies us to be an heir of God in the eternal age. But to reign with Christ is conditional. We must suffer with Him that we might also reign with Him.

Believers who do not grow and overcome in this age will not reign with Christ in the comming age. Yet through God's dispensational dicipline, eventually every redeemed, regenerated believer will be part of the New Jerusalem, fully transformed and fully conformed to the image of Christ, transfigured and glorified as the many sons of God for eternity.

Yet because we confuse these two and only see, "heaven and hell" we miss the whole of our Lord's teaching conserning the kingdom assuming that only "heaven and hell" are in the balance.

Graftedbranch

 2006/2/14 10:48Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Also, the judgment seat of Christ is a judgment of rewards, not punishment. Anyone that comes before this judgment seat is already saved and only his works are examined.



One example:

In 1 Corinthians in one place we are told concerning fornicators, adulterers and such, "those who practice such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Yet in another place in the same epistle, concerning one who "had his father's wife" he says, "I have decided to give such a one over to Saten for the destruction of his flesh that His spirit might be saved in that day..."

Here we have two instances, one relating to the Kingdom and one related to "being saved". And how do you reconcile these two?

If they that practice such things are catagorily excluded from eternal life, then how will this one's "spirit be saved"?

Though this one was living in fornication and that in a most profane way, Paul still regarded him as saved, as regenerated. He was excluded from the fellowship of the church just as he would be excluded from the kingdom, but he was saved. And thank God this one did repent and was restored as 2 Corinthians reveals.

No, Paul is refering to the reward and inheritance of the Kingdom. Not to eternal salvation. Surely many genuine regenerated Christians have fallen into such things and some die in this condition. But are they lost eternally? No. But they forfit the Kingdom. They lose their inheritance as "joint hiers with Christ". They die in the wilderness and don't enter in to the good land. They are redeemd and taken out of egypt, they are saved from condemnation. But they do not recieve the reward.

Graftedbranch

 2006/2/14 10:58Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
I personally get to get the earth down good then I will start wondering what i'll be doing in Heaven, I would think with streets of gold and no crying or illness it's got to be better than here no matter if you grow or not, even if you don't I am sure you will still feel 10' tall.



I think the Lord wants us to move beyond this. The scriptures are not silent on these things and give us a clear revelation and a certian hope.

Paul said, "I run not as one beating the air". He knew what the goal was, He knew what the prize was. And He ran the race with his eye on the Prize. Not heaven. But the Kingdom. The reward of the Kingdom.

Paul was saved, regerated, called and being sanctified. Yet He ran the race to finish the course laid out for him, He fought a good fight and finished his course. Only then could he say with assurance, "I know there is laid up for me a crown of rightousness which the Lord shall give me in that day, and not only to me but to all who love His appearing.

Do you think all believers "love His appearing"? No. They may say they do. But they want to have some other goal first. They want to marry, they want to have their careers first. They do not really love His appearing. Their heart is not single. It is divided.

We cannot get down living in this earth unless we see the purpose of God and what He is doining with us and in us today.

And what is His work today? It is to work Christ into us, to constitute us with Himself to build up the body of Christ to be His corporate expression.

If we do not see God's purpose, how can we cooperate with Him? How can we grow if we don't understand what growth is and what it's object is and what it's issue is?

If we think that God's purpose for us is just to live a good, clean life, then we will not grow because we will just be trying to do what we think is good.

But God's intention is not to make a bunch of good clean living people, but rather to build up His habitation, His dwelling place, the Body of Christ, God's building. And only as we see God's purpose, can we accurately and consistantly call on Him to work Himself into us to be His expression.

And this produces overcommers. And overcommers according to Revealtion 2-3 are those who overcome the degraded situation in the church. It's marriage to the world, and all the things which have come in to degrade it. In every case this is what we are called to "overcome" and only those who "overcome" are given the things He promised.

Graftedbranch

 2006/2/14 11:22Profile
brentw
Member



Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio

 Re:

no....As we are now we will be in heaven. As we are now is how we wanted to be in heaven. We will see our spiritual poverty in heaven. We will get to heaven and look around and begin to realize how much of earth we lived for...


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Brent

 2006/2/14 11:41Profile





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