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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : can the teachings of Jesus be compared to those of paul's?

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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707


2Sa 23:5
Although my house ... - The sense of this clause (according to the the King James Version) will be that David comparing the actual state of his family and kingdom during the later years of trouble and disaster with the prophetic description of the prosperity of the righteous king, and seeing how far it falls short, comforts himself by the terms of God's covenant 2 Samuel 7:12-16 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

This is Christ and His Kingdom, I will be His Father, and he shall be my son. If He commit iniquity, Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all. I will chasten Him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever. and looks forward to Messiah's kingdom. The latter clause, "although he make it not to grow," must then mean that, although at the present time the glory of his house was not made to grow, yet all his salvation and all his desire was made sure in the covenant which would be fulfilled in due time.

Sure David had salvation, and the Holy Spirit upon Him, and God speaking to Him. The big difference is David had to look forward to the Christ and His Kingdom on this earth, which will take place in the millennial Kingdom of Christ on David's Throne.

This is not the Born Again's Kingdom, our Kingdom is in the Father's House. Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

Does Christ receive David unto Himself? No because he will be part of the ruling over on this earth of the servants of Christ telling all nations of the Kingdom of God on this earth for a thousand years. Then the end and all will be given to the Father by Christ. Finally all Israel will be saved.

We the Born again are not servants we are son's in the Father's House our heavenly kingdom with Christ, Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

We are no longer servants but friends. Jhn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

But we are to be as servants to each other and as servants, as Christ is a servant of all.
2Cr 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

Eph 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; but still friends of Christ and fellow heirs of Christ to our Father. Not heirs of the Law but fellow Heirs in Christ.

Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law [be] heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.

David had to look forward to the Messiah ruling on this earth, that he might receive the final portion of his salvation from Christ, and he will by the blessed appearing of Christ on Davids Throne and being all the remenant of Israel that will be saved.

In Christ: Phillip


 2006/2/17 15:09Profile

Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


The covenant made on mount Sinai and the covenant made with Abraham.

The covenant of Abraham was the promise of the Spirit through faith. The New Covenent is the Abrahamic covenant come to pass. Abraham did not see it.

"Gal. 3:16 But to Abraham were the promises spoken and to his seed. He does not say, And to the seeds, as concering many, but as conceerning one: "And to your seed," who is Christ.

The Covenant with Abraham was a promise. But that covenant was not ratified until the Lord Jesus died as He said, 'This is the New covenant in My Blood".

In Galatians 3 we are shown that we had a promise through Abraham, and then a covenant ratified 450 years later, that is, the law which today we call, "the Old Covenant".

And the covenant ratified in the law did not set aside the or annul the promise. And in fact, the levitical system was designed to show forth this promise fulfilled in Christ.

But the promise was not ratified until Christ came and died. It was ratified in His Blood. And since Christ fulfilled all the terms of the Old covenant in Law, the New Covenant does away with the Old.

The Abrahamic promise was not the Old covenant. The old covenant was in the law. And the law did not come into till 450 years after the promise. And the New Covenant is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic promise ratified and realized in Christ. The promise of the New Covenant preceeded the convenant of the law, but was not ratified till Christ came and died.

Thus it is called the New Covenent because it superceeds the Old.

to sum up:

1. The convenet with Abraham was an unratified promise of the Spirit through faith.

2. The law, 450 years later was ratified and is the Old Covenant.

3. Christ fulfilled the terms of the Old Covenenat and ratified the covenant made with Abraham bringing in the New Covenant.

4 Abraham had nothing to do with the Old Covenant. The Old covenant is not a mixture of law and grace or law and faith. The Old covenent was in law. The promise was of the Spirit through faith. And abraham was justified not on the basis of the comming covenent in law, but on the basis of the realization of the promies of the Spirit through faith.

This is the clear understanding of Galatians chapter 3.


 2006/2/24 14:11Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707


David had to look forward to the Messiah ruling on this earth, that he might receive the final portion of his salvation from Christ, and he will by the blessed appearing of Christ on Davids Throne and being all the remenant of Israel that will be saved.

Graftedbranch wrote: "The covenant of Abraham was the promise of the Spirit through faith. The New Covenant is the Abrahamic covenant come to pass. Abraham did not see it.


It is just like a Christian looking forward to his heavenly home. I know it and I believe it but it has not happened yet. Just because I believe it does not make it so yet, but that is how I am to reckon it while I live here on this earth. It has already taken place in the heavenlies but the physical reality is not come to pass. Gods promise to Abraham cannot take place until the reality of it is at hand. That is what will happen then the twelve tribes sit again on this earth under the Kingship of David's Throne with Christ as King. The Christian does not have a King that makes them the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham, even though Jesus Christ is King of King and Lord of all Lords. Who is Christ to the dispensation of Grace believers? He is The Son of God, He is Savior, He is Life, He is Lord, He is God, He is All in All. The Christian has Christ on the Throne already which is our heart in Spirit. Is Christ a ruling King on this earth now? Yes, He is, but He is King in the believer by right of the New Covenant in His Blood, not by the promise to Abraham, but by the promise of the Seed of Abraham which Is Jesus Christ of the Cross of God. Yes Jesus Christ is King, but much more He is God and has been birthed in the New Creation Believer, who are a Kingdom of Priests already under the Headship of Jesus Christ our oldest and First Born of the Family of Gods Glory. Colossians 1:26-28 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

In Christ: Phillip


 2006/2/24 18:06Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707


Jeff do you remember this, of which we had many, Thank you brother, I love you and praise God for you always. At least I learned not to argue or confront your intellect with Christ in you and let God work out our differences By His Holy Spirit Teacher, our Parakletos. I also see a new softness in you, ten years does make a difference.

By Christ in you 2006


1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. Notice the dates?

Who's Seed is this incorruptible Seed? It is not the Holy Spirit. It is the Seed of the Word and Who is the Living Word? The Word is Christ and the Seed is Christ. It takes a Father to produce seed that will conceive. That is why Jesus said, "Pray in this way, Our Father." We are the Bride of Christ and the Seed of the Father is Christ, and the Seed of Christ has been birthed in each believer. This is not the Holy Spirit It is the Seed and the Holy Spirit made the delivery of the Father. Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

This is the Incorruptable Seed of Christ that is born again in the believer. To put this Seed in the believer the Holy Spirit has to do it, and when we conceive, Christ is born in each of us, this is the full blown, birthed, lived, died on the Cross, resurrected, ascended and returned in the children of God, Born Again of; John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. This is the birth of Christ in the believer by the Holy Spirit and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

When seed is conceived the recipient does not know she became pregnant. Only when changes begin to surface is the pregnancy brought to a knowing. The same thing goes for a believer, The Spirit of Christ begins to come forth and we know that we have been born again and are pregnant with Christ and the Holy Spirit which is also given by the Father is now our Teacher of this Pregnancy of Christ begins to show. Christ said, "we don't know from whence it comes," it is like the wind, and no one knows until the visible effect of the wind moves the branches and begins to produce fruit. True, we have the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit both in us because we believed, but the filling comes only when we know, again KNOW and believe it is so. Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

2Cr 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

We are being changed from glory to glory, so also the Holy Spirit revelation of Christ in us the Hope of Glory.

Be ye filled is what begins at birth.

Birthed in Christ: Phillip

By Rookie;

by rookie on 2006/2/17 10:58:06

Brother Phillip wrote:

Were any sealed before the Holy Spirit came that Jesus had promised and that the Father sent, to seal us into Christ, and the Holy Spirit being in us forever who had previously been with us and would come and go upon old testament saints

2 Samuel 23:

2 “The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me,
And His word was on my tongue.
3 The God of Israel said,
The Rock of Israel spoke to me:
“He who rules over men must be just,
Ruling in the fear of God.
4 And he shall be like the light of the morning when the sun rises,
A morning without clouds,
Like the tender grass springing out of the earth,
By clear shining after rain.’
5 “Although my house is not so with God,
Yet He has made with me an everlasting covenant,
Ordered in all things and secure.
For this is all my salvation and all my desire;
Will He not make it increase?

In this proclaimation David knows that he has received an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things and secure. This covenant consists of salvation which he declares fills all his desire. And then David declares that this covenant will increase.

Now according to the Scripture that MeAgain posted in 1 Corinthians 2 Paul teaches:

1Cor. 2:9 But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

1Cor. 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Is David a natural man or a spiritual man based on what he declares in 2 Samuel?

How many believers today understand what David sings about?

That we might be in Christ and Christ in us, which no other people had ever had by their belief of what God Said About His Son. Oh sure the Old Testament new about the Messiah but they did not know He was a Son and would be born again in the believer.

I remember that you said one time something to the effect that It is the life of Christ grown in the believer that creates salvation in the believer. It was something like that, I am sorry if the words that I used is not reflective of your beliefs. With this in mind, what notion of salvation does David have?

In Christ

Jeff I will always treasure all of our posts with each other, sometimes your Iron was very sharp and I had to make sure I was as sharp as your Iron and that God was leading us both into deeper truth about Himself.

Bless you my Brother, see you soon/

In Christ: Phillip


 2016/8/27 8:03Profile

 Re: Christinyou

God Bless,

 2016/8/27 9:31


"On Top of that could Nicodemus have been born again while Jesus was yet with him?"

Matthew 5:48
“In a word, what I’m saying is, Grow up. You’re kingdom subjects. Now live like it.

Live out your God-created identity. Live generously and graciously toward others, the way God lives toward you.”

Also, what was Cain told ? something like "sin crouches at the door.... overcome it...."


This is in line with all the Gospel, in Complete Harmony with All Yhwh's Torah and All His Word: >>
For if you love only those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even tax-collectors do that! And if you exchange greetings only with your own circle, are you doing anything exceptional? Even the pagans do that much. No, you are to be perfect, like your Heavenly Father.

And all through the NT Epistles - Yhwh's People, immersed in Jesus, are called in God's Word "holy" .... said to be "living IN UNION with Yeshua and with one another" .... etc etc etc (DAILY, EVERY DAY... not once in a while....)

 2016/9/14 23:51

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