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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : can the teachings of Jesus be compared to those of paul's?

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:
""This teaching of external verses internal seems a bit off doesn't it. Where does Paul teach this thought about external?""


Colossians 2:16-18 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Paul had said in Col 1 that it is a mystery that is now revealed in the saints, this revelation of Christ in a person was not possible in the Old Testament. Paul makes it clear, don't be beguiled and don't intrude into things that puff up, let no part of the Law inter your ability to be saved. This mystery is for Jews as well as Gentiles, because in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile. What Paul said in Col 1:27 is the whole of the New Testament.

Colossians 1:26-28 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Old Testament Prophets did not have this mystery, or they would have been preaching that a living Christ would die and be resurrected and then He would come back from heaven and fill those that believe with the Seed of Christ and a whole new generation and race of people would be born again and They would be Christ Ones, which had never been revealed since the creation and before, and even to Gods, children of Israel, which are descendants of Israel himself. Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

The Christians at Antioch are DNA Children of God, by birth, "Christ in you", not created Law abiding children of their father the devil.

We must see our position with God, Birthed Children of God by Christ in you the Hope of Glory. Not Law abiding created children of Israel. We must rightly divide the Word, Law and Grace, salvation by Grace through Faith, old testament and new testament, God Himself in each temple, Christ in you the Hope of Glory, not God in a temple that all must worship in by one human priest only able to approach The Father. But Christ in us and able to boldly come to The Father, each and every one, because of our sonship by the Christ In us. This is just a very small application of what the birthed Children of God have in Christ Jesus, which no other generation has ever had. No, None, until Christ is Born Again in the believer, which could not happen until Christ and His Cross and His Death, Resurrection, Ascension, and coming back in the Flesh of Believers.

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Is He Come? Not just was He on earth as God in flesh, but is He now in Flesh of believers and do we believe it.

In Christ: Phillip, YES.


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Phillip

 2006/2/1 14:47Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brs GB and Phillip

I hear what you are saying. I have heard many teach of the same things. I hear many teach that the day of Pentecost was the beginning of the "new man" or the "born-again child of God." I have also read of your thoughts about how Paul was given something more to reveal, a greater revelation. Yet I don't believe Paul teaches anything about Pentecost and the significance of that particular day. I could be wrong please correct me.

When Paul teaches of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, why does he always go back to the covenant made with Abraham? When teaching about the differences between the two covenants he never speaks about a different covenant starting on the day of Pentecost. He always begins with Abraham.

Again, I have not seen where Paul teaches about the Holy Spirit being external to man in the OT. I read your quote of Scripture Br Phillip and I see that Paul only speaks of the dispensation of grace given to Paul to reveal the mystery to the Gentiles.

There always has been a remnant of God's children according to the grace of God in the OT. Look for the results of faith in those who believed, what nature do they inherit? What do they become?

I seek not to limit the work of Christ to the NT, for He was foreordained before the foundations of the world to accomplish salvation for the household of God. Jesus prayed to His Father, restore the glory I had with You before I came. What did Christ do before His incarnation? What was the purpose of the Order of Melchizedec?

There is much treasure, do not limit yourselves by dispensational theology. Christ is much greater than the teachings that have come from man in the attempt to categorize and explain the work of God in the OT and NT saints.

God Bless
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/2 15:51Profile
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brothers Phillip and GB:

17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.

James states that Elijah had the same nature as those who lived after Pentecost. What nature is he speaking of? This nature comes from faith does it not?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/2 15:58Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
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 Re:

Quote:

""There is much treasure, do not limit yourselves by dispensational theology. Christ is much greater than the teachings that have come from man in the attempt to categorize and explain the work of God in the OT and NT saints.""

1Cr 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

I do not limit myself by dispensationalism because I embrace the different ways of God dealing with His creation.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/2/3 6:26Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip quoted:

Quote:
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:



Have you ever considered in this Scripture the various "things" that were gathered together? The gentiles were added into the Holy kingdom.

Rom. 11:16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

Please consider who Paul identifies as holy. Then notice who is added into amongst the holy branches. This is the mystery which the prophets spoke of long ago in the OT.

Paul identifies these as the firstfruits of holiness. According to Scripture how does one take one holiness?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/3 10:38Profile
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Posts: 4821
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 Re:

Brs Phillip and GB

Is this Scripture a depiction of a born-again believer?


Job 33
24 Then He is gracious to him, and says,
“Deliver him from going down to the Pit;
I have found a ransom’;
25 His flesh shall be young like a child’s,
He shall return to the days of his youth.
26 He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
He shall see His face with joy,
For He restores to man His righteousness.


What does it mean when God "restores to man His righteousness?" According to Scripture who is our righteousness?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/3 10:44Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

""Have you ever considered in this Scripture the various "things" that were gathered together? The gentiles were added into the Holy kingdom.""

Acts 28:27-29 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. "reasoning"= disputations, non belief.

To this day the Nation of Israel will not hear with their ears. Only the few that are the elect will hear and see and have the mystery of Christ in them revealed unto salvation.

In Christ: Phillip



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Phillip

 2006/2/3 15:24Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
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 Re:

Quote:

""What does it mean when God "restores to man His righteousness?" According to Scripture who is our righteousness?""

Man has no righteousness, how can God restore what man does not have. Jobs righteousness is not in what he does but only in Christ who has not come yet.

Job 33:31-33 Mark well, O Job, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I will speak. If thou hast any thing to say, answer me: speak, for I desire to justify thee. If not, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I shall teach thee wisdom.

Job had self righteousness and God was showing him there is only One that is Good and that is God. God was not saving Job by Christ in Him, God was showing Job that he was self righteous, and when Job understood God gave him all he had lost.

Job 34:31-37 Surely it is meet to be said unto God, I have borne chastisement, I will not offend any more: That which I see not teach thou me: if I have done iniquity, I will do no more. Should it be according to thy mind? he will recompense it, whether thou refuse, or whether thou choose; and not I: therefore speak what thou knowest. Let men of understanding tell Me, and let a wise man hearken unto Me. Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom. My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men. For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.

This is the end of man until Christ be born and suffer and die, for the end of man is in himself. Only Christ in a man can bring salvation, nothing else. "Ye must be born again".

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Old Testament Saints will have This Christ as their King, When Christ rules from the Throne of David in His millennial reign. New Testament Saints already have Him not only as King of Kings, but much more our Lord and our Life, already living in us who believe and are born again of Incorruptable Seed, son's of God.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/2/3 16:00Profile
rookie
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Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Br Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Man has no righteousness, how can God restore what man does not have. Jobs righteousness is not in what he does but only in Christ who has not come yet.



I don't believe you read the Scripture carefully enough. The Scripture I quoted states that God restore [b]His righteousness[/b] to man.

26 He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
He shall see His face with joy,
For He restores to man His righteousness.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/3 16:57Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Br Phillip quoted:

Quote:
Acts 28:27-29 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.



Not all of Israel fell under this condemnation. Please read what Paul teaches on this subject.

Romans 11
2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

These people who lived during Elijah's time were saved not by works but by grace. These saints share in the same inheritance through the Holy Spirit.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/2/3 17:05Profile





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