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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : can the teachings of Jesus be compared to those of paul's?

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jend
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Joined: 2006/1/21
Posts: 16
u.s midwest ghetto

 can the teachings of Jesus be compared to those of paul's?

found a site where the teachings of Jesus Christ and revelations alone are used as the guide in our walk as opposed to the incorporation of the teachings of paul and the other writers of the new testament.
paul, he said, based his teachings on human reasoning and philosophy. the site's called www.discipleship.net and if i understand the premise, the site founder says we find all that we need with the words of Jesus.
the site goes on to say that the church as we know it today does not resemble anything that was taught by Jesus.
is this in conflict with the scriptures and if so, where are these scriptures located?

 2006/1/26 1:37Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: can the teachings of Jesus be compared to those of paul's?

Quote:
paul, he said, based his teachings on human reasoning and philosophy. the site's called www.discipleship.net and if i understand the premise, the site founder says we find all that we need with the words of Jesus.



Here is an argument which is based on a completely wrong premise.

The gospels are a record of Christ, His teaching and His living and work when He was in the flesh as the single grain of wheat which came to fall to the earth to die.

The Epistles are the teaching of Christ as the Resurrected Lord and indwelling Spirit in the many grains who are born and produced in His resurrection by His indwelling Life.

The Epistles are the revelation of Christ Himself in His body interpreting and applying all that He is and all that He accomplished in judicial redemption and in His organic salvation through His resurrection Life.

There is a difference in time and in covenant, but not in authorship.

All scripture is inspiried (God breathed) and is profitable for teaching, reproof, etc.

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/26 13:03Profile









 Re:

I would suggest you avoid that website. These kind of teachers thrive on planting doubt in people's minds about the Word of God. Once that happens you are open to all sorts of false teachings.

Krispy

 2006/1/26 13:15
JFEdgar
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Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 Re:

I do not know of a Christian group in history that thrived on God, was holy, lived in a state of revival and were on fire for God that did not use all 66 books of the bible and rely on Paul's teachings as much as Jesus'. The reason the church today does not resemble Jesus' teachings is because they are not living them out.

Peter, the one whome Jesus entrusted as leader of his church, commended Paul's writings. If anyone should have spoken against Paul as a heretic or as one who falsely claimed to know what Jesus taught, it was Peter.

2 Peter 3:14-17 "Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness."

He warns that Paul's writings are, indeed, complex and can be used to your own destruction (as many in the church today do use them). But, he commends him as a brother and commends his epistle.



Jesus, is, indeed the cornerstone, but the apostles are the foundation of the house of God, the church.

Ephesians 2:19-22 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."


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Joe E

 2006/1/26 15:45Profile
jend
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Joined: 2006/1/21
Posts: 16
u.s midwest ghetto

 Re:

Quote:

JFEdgar wrote:
The reason the church today does not resemble Jesus' teachings is because they are not living them them.....
If anyone should have spoken against Paul as a heretic or as one who falsely claimed to know what Jesus taught, it was Peter.....
He warns that Paul's writings are, indeed, complex and can be used to your own destruction (as many in the church today do use them). But, he commends him as a brother and commends his epistle.

here is where i get confused, i see the church adhering to the teachings of paul with things such as women's place, works and faith, elders, morality, gifts of the Spirit, etc.. but would paul recognize the church if he walked in on a typical sunday?
also, why are paul's teachings so confusing and complex to adults as compared to the teachings of Jesus? if the Body was living as Jesus taught it, would the church need the teachings of paul?
peace out, jend
"he who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth: there is nothing false about him." john 7:18

 2006/1/27 1:47Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Peter, the one whome Jesus entrusted as leader of his church, commended Paul's writings. If anyone should have spoken against Paul as a heretic or as one who falsely claimed to know what Jesus taught, it was Peter.



Paul in Colossians 1:25 says, "Of which I became a minister according to the stewardship of God, which was given to me to complete the Word of God... which is, "Christ in you, the hope of Glory"

IN another place Paul says, "All in Asia have forsaken me...". That is they turned away from His ministry.

Paul was given by God to complete the word of God which is the revelation of the mystery which is 'Christ in you, the hope of Glory".

It is only in Paul's epistles that we have the full revelation of Christ and the church as His Body, God's building, and the Bride of Christ.

Paul was entrusted with the ministry to "complete the Word of God". And Christ appeared to Him and said that he would be His witness to all He revealed and in all He would appear to him.

Paul's epistles are the completion of the Word of God and the full revelation of Christ and the Church.

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/27 2:07Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 2 cents worth

In any study of Paul's writtings it "must" be rembered that Paul wrote to Gentiles who knew nothing of Jewish tradition and teachings. So Paul was more of an educator, where as Jesus spoke the common lauguage of the time and that to the jewish mind, in picture and examples they from thier cultural background would have understood. A closer look at both Paul and Jesus shows deep roots in thier teachings from the old testament, seems they both enjoyed the book of Deuteronomy as well as the prophets.


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D.Miller

 2006/1/27 2:22Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: Just the Red Letters?

Quote:
I would suggest you avoid that website. These kind of teachers thrive on planting doubt in people's minds about the Word of God.



I second Kripy's advice here. In addition to the great responses below I wanted to bring up a conversation from this site awhile back about the "red letters" in our bibles.

The simple thing to keep in mind is that a hundred years ago some bible marketing whiz came up with the idea of printing the words spoken from the physical larynx of Jesus in red ink...which belies the fact that all of scripture should be therefore printed in red ink because all it is the Word of God!

I remember a funny story where Ron Bailey once met someone who said they had a red letter bible in which all the words of Jesus were printed with red ink...I think he said something along the lines that well, he had a black letter edition...where all the words of God were printed in black. ;-)

Perhaps this is an important point to remember as we read our scriptures, even as we strive to understand the purpose and clarify the meaning of various texts.

Blessings,

MC


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Mike Compton

 2006/1/27 2:29Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: 2 cents worth

Quote:
So Paul was more of an educator, where as Jesus spoke the common lauguage of the time and that to the jewish mind, in picture and examples they from thier cultural background would have understood.



Paul according to his pedegree outlined in Phillipians 3 was among the formost authorities on Jewish tradition and Old Testament theology. He was a Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharasee, trained under Gamalial, and a zealot for the traditions of the Jewish fathers.

Pauls' epistls are not the product of his pedegree, but ther product of Revelation of the Lord Himself. His epistles are the very revelation of Christ Himself and applicable to both Jews and gentiles because as He says, "In HIm there can be no jew, Greek, barbarian, slave or freeman, but only the One New Man.

Paul did not preach a different gospel to the gentiles but the one gospel of Christ which is to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/27 11:04Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

In your reference you are right as reguards Paul's defense against jews who were trying to discredit him. He came to a point where in his ministry he turned from the jews and went to the gentiles as to his ministry direction. His letters are addressed to gentile churches, which may have had some jewish converts in them but were primarily gentile. The early church reconized the apostle John and not Paul as the church theologian. Paul's letters to the churches would never have been accepted by the jews of the period and therefore he was an instructor or teacher of the gentiles. As such he taught by revelation or understanding that he had recieved from the Lord, it's interesting to note that no less than Peter had to reconize Paul and his teachings for some jewish christians believers to even consider what he wrote. Much of what Paul wrote was on christian ethics, since the gentile believer would have been at a disadvantage not have that foundation in the jewish OT, so he educated from the ground up, not laying again the foundation which most jewish people have from childhood upwards.


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D.Miller

 2006/1/27 13:09Profile





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