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 Re:

Quote:
We desire revival?



Destinysweet, yes we do. I do. But I believe the first step to revival is to KNOW what TRUE revival is.

When we live in a world thirsting for spiritual "signs, wonders amd miracles" without being able to discern the spirits that give the signs, wonders and miracles, that is itself a *sign* of apostasy.

The Holy Spirit we want for revival convicts of sin....not tickles us with Holy Laughter, or makes a mockery of Christ Crucified and risen, by usurping the Miracle of Calvary and souls saved .....((never never mentioned in their top 10 list of exploits)) with a "Guess what I did in the power of the Holy Spirit". ...translated myself to the moon and back!

The Bible says these false teachers are going to get worse and worse including those who follow them. AND I believe God said in 2 Thess....God is going to give them over to these strong delusions...Why? Because they received not the love of the GOSPEL that they might be saved!

Katy

 2008/4/7 16:39









 Re: David Hogan?



NotMe asked

Quote:
But our hearts must be pure for this to happen and our hands clean, and our ears unstopped--for unless we're vessels prepared for God, blameless in His sight, how can we expect our prayers to move Him?

How does this fit with the preceding sentence, please?

'I believe it must be a prayer that [i]He has initiated[/i] in our hearts by His Spirit, which He hears because it is indeed according to His will.'



In one sentence you are saying God is the cause of the prayer, and the other, that the prayer is ours. Of course, both are true. But they are not a linear progression, they are simultaneous in spiritual terms.

The same Spirit that makes us fit to approach Him as sons, has validated our sonship by giving us His word to pray.



But, even gross sinners can pray the word of God.

[color=6633FF]Romans 10:8 But what saith it?

The word is nigh thee, [i]even[/i] in thy mouth, and in thy heart:
that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That [u]if[/u][/color]



Paul is quoting from Deuteronomy; no-one was baptised in the Spirit then.


I am wondering, therefore, how you square your thinking with Jesus' command to love our enemies. Don't we pray [u]in the Spirit[/u] for them also?


This may be ('David Hogan may be yours, but he definitely is NOT my brother.') where the loss of local church is crucial.

But... surely there is no sin in praying for one who is far away in however many senses 'far away' can be construed?


 2008/4/7 18:14
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Notme, you said


"What I meant by this was that Brothertom's post sounded a bit apologetic and fearful, as if he didn't have the right to say what he said, at the core of which is the fear of man."




But he said he had given his opinon. Not the word of God.




Paul said our speech should be always with grace, seasoned with salt. And James warns us about being teachers and giving offence.




The Lord Jesus said,




[b][color=660000] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. [/color][/b]


- John 5:30(KJV)


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/4/7 20:33Profile









 Re: Crsschk: The good of the Heresies: David Hogan


I am grateful that you spoke out in a way that ought to clarify this controversy, and it will, to those who have an ear, as Jesus said. Some would not listen, if the Lord Himself woke them up, but His Lambs hear His voice, and will not follow another.


This is why I believe the Church itself will perish[if it were possible] if not for Godly Pastors, who are not hirelings, who will stand up when the Wolf comes growling. The young are gullible. They cannot see that being deceived to follow a deceiver, can literally kill you, and if not delivered from the mouth of the wolf, kill you to be cast into death forever.


This is how I see this issue. I see the discussion as a very healthy one, and necessary for; "It is necessary that there be divisions among you, that those who are approved be manifest among you." Wolves exist, and need to be driven away: not coddled, not dialogued, but exposed and expelled, for they will devour you if you receive them.




Quote:
"I say to you I am innocent of the blood of all men[why?] because].."I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.".....[the blood of the sheep are on the hands of a Shepard who refuses to warn, and declare the full truth about anything that could harm.]


[Shepard's]...Take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock,among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, To SHEPARD the the church of God, which He purchased with his own Blood........


For I know this, after my departure [when true loving discernment and courage to fight to protect leaves] SAVAGE WOLVES will come in among you, NOT SPARING THE FLOCK.



Also, from among yourselves MEN will rise up, speaking PERVERSE things,,[sound familiar?], TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES AFTER THEMSELVES!.......ACTS 20, VSS. 26 THRU 30.



Shepherds do three basic things. They feed the flock of God; They protect the flock of God, [as in this case], and the are committed to the absolute Lordship of Jesus of Nazareth, and His Holy Spirit, in each and every situation in life for themselves, and those entrusted to them, by the Holy Spirit.




We have forgotten WHY The HOLY SPIRIT commanded that a plurality of Pastors be ordained; to combat excesses as this one. No man, alone, should have Dominion over a group or movement, ever! Why?, because it provides fertile ground for lying PRIDE to rise, and when it does, their is no end to the heights in which it will ascend. Satan tempted David to number the people, and 70,000 of his good men died, many, I'm sure, were his friends. He did this against much wise counsel. [plurality]



Also, Paul establishes a pattern and doctrine of the Pastor [ Acts, 20][I like Shepard better]. to get a job![oooh, now we may be talking heresy]...Why? for those who are supported by the church, BECOME HIRELINGS. Jesus said the hirelings will flee, when the wolf comes, Why?,,,oddly, because THEY ARE HIRELINGS.



At Columbine, the school of the famous murders, there is a well known photo of Police officers cowering behind a massive oak tree, with their weapons drawn, AS shots were being fired inside by high school assassins. they realized that if they went inside, with only pistols, facing a possible terrorist gang, they could die,,so they remained outside until many were slaughtered. Very cowardly, as I see it, but they were hired Police officers, just doing their job, with department safety first rules in place, after all.



Take the same scenario, and see an accountant, outside in terrible anxiety, knowing that his baby daughter, only daughter, was or could be shot and killed, helpless, at a murderer's evil whim. Give him the same weapon, and the hounds of hell themselves would not deter his zeal to fight for his beloved's life, no matter if he lived, or died, Love would drive him to fight.



Hirelings go where the money is, or off to greener pastures when pressed by hardship or war.


This is the difference between a hireling, and a true Shepard, and where this last days church is heading.



This is not mean spirited to protect God's heritage. Tom


crsschk wrote:
[b]gallimatia: n.[/b] [i]nonsense; talk without meaning[/i]

Much of that here ...

If just 2% of all these embellishments, exaggerations, flat out lies, repugnant character qualities are true it is more than enough of an indictment. There is enough testimony and blatant attributes exposed from the man's own lips that it is uncanny and incredible that there is any propping up of any of this. How much has to go by the wayside unaddressed to speak of any good, of any equivocating or defending of such outlandish claims, character and butchering of the scriptures?

"[i]Somebody needs to stand up. ... He has serious mental problems"[/i]

"[i]Hogan can make all the boastful claims he wants but the Church must stand up and say, “Prove it!”[/i]

'[i]Landry openly disclosed that “David’s problems go way back and he has been telling tall tales his whole life. I have caught him in so many lies that I have lost track.”

When asked if he thought Hogan was a pathological liar, Landry said, “Yes” without hesitation.[/i]'

[url=http://www.pfo.org/exploits.htm]The Remarkable Exploits of David Hogan[/url]

Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for [u]liars[/u], for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 1:6-10

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all [u]liars[/u], shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 21:8


Before anyone gets themselves all bent out of shape over this or wants to begin the discrediting process of an article, compare it with the other testimonies here. Again, if even smallest percentage collectively doesn't paint a very incredible picture ... Prove that he never said what he said or otherwise prove that he did indeed say what he did and bring forth evidence backing the claims ... at the least. Moreover, just where one would find any scriptural precedent for the vast majority of all this? It is almost strange to say that this could be secondary scriptural warrant, in regards to the claims when the heart issues, pride, haughty, boastful attributes are so obnoxiously loud. How can this be give a pass?

Dodging or simply ignoring the incredulous issues of integrity, character and honesty at the expense of ... who knows what that is being defended is to put one in the place of being an accessory to the same crimes.

Dear saints, there is nothing mean spirited about it, but we just cannot be so easily deceived, we must test all things and judge with right judgment. Don't get over emotional about it or turn this into a commotion, just think, consider ... please.

 2008/4/8 5:43
broclint
Member



Joined: 2006/8/1
Posts: 370
West Monroe, LA

 Re:

Well spoken Brothertom.

Amazing difference between star names, and the humble servants of Jesus Christ who through all these centuries have only sought only to glorify God regardless of what earthly vessel is used in the process.


1 Timothy 1:17 (NKJV) 17Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.



Clint


_________________
Clint Thornton

 2008/4/8 9:44Profile









 Re:

http://www.christianissues.com/hogan.html

Here is another eye witness.

Katy

 2008/4/8 10:34
firestorm08
Member



Joined: 2008/11/21
Posts: 1


 Re: David Hogan

Jesus opened blind eyes, raised the dead,
healed leporsy, cast of devils...

These are some of the same miracles in Davids ministry.

Jesus offended religious people.
David does too.

Religious people in Jesus' day did no miracles.
Same results in our day.

I think it would be wise to shake of the critics
and get on our face an ask God why don't we get any results like Jesus and his friend David.

 2008/11/21 20:29Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi firestorm08...

Welcome to SermonIndex! Let me encourage you to utilize the many resources available using the MAIN MENU on the left of the screen.

I suppose that the difference here is that we KNOW that Jesus did all of these things. We only hear David Hogan's claims about such things. Yet even those claims are both unsubstantiated and do not bear witness with what is written in the Word of God.

There are many preachers who claim to be "men of God" and who boast to have raised the dead, healed the sick, cast out demons, visited Heaven, etc... We certainly know that God can do these things with men. Are we supposed to believe them just because they say it is true?

Anyway, welcome to the forums, brother!

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2008/11/21 20:41Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Jesus offended religious people.
David does too.


It wasn't the miracles of Jesus that offended people; multitudes of hypocrites thronged Him for them - it was rather the preaching of the gospel that offended the religious people. Can the same be said for the case of Hogan?

Quote:
Religious people in Jesus' day did no miracles.
Same results in our day.


Followers of Christ are known by their fruit and not gifts. Pharoah's magicians did miracles, Mexican curanderos do miracles chanting the Padre Nuestros and kissing the Virgin of Guadalupe. Miracles are obnoxious without genuine fruit; but fruit without the gift of miracles is not offensive in the least.

Brother Paul




_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/11/21 20:41Profile





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