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 Know you what manner of spirit you are of...?

(NKJV) Luke 9

46 Then a dispute arose among them as to which of them would be greatest.
47 And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a little child and set him by Him,
48 and said to them, "Whoever receives this little child in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me. For he who is least among you all will be great."

49 Now John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us."
50 But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid [him,] for he who is not against us is on our side."

51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem,
52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was [set] for the journey to Jerusalem.

54 And when His disciples James and John saw [this,] they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?"
55 [b]But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "[u]You do not know what manner of spirit you are of[/u][/b].
56 "For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save [them."]


I have a two simple questions:

What did Jesus mean by the 'spirit you are of'? [b]John 8:44?[/b]

&

Did the '[u]spirit of[/u]' which the disciples were, [i][b]remain[/b], even after they were born again/baptised in the Spirit?[/i]

If yes, please explain from scripture.

If no, please explain from scripture.

(I've been taught it did not remain .... right 8-) or wrong? :-?)

 2006/1/18 7:07
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Know you what manner of spirit you are of...?

From Strongs Concordance, spirit (pneuma) can mean a lot of things:

a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul,(by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind.

I believe that Jesus was telling them that they were still fixated in the mode of "VENGEANCE and they did not have the spirit of mercy. The message of Christ is all about reconcilation - restoring sinners to him through forgiveness.
God is not willing that any should perish.

Quote:
Did the 'spirit of' which the disciples were, remain, even after they were born again/baptised in the Spirit?



I can't think of a case where one of the apostles promoted vengeance over mercy.
However, that doesn't mean that the spirit isn't prevelant today.
One has to merely look at the way people react to wrongs to see that "spirit" of revenge is still on their hearts.
We are called to be instruments of God's mercy, not his revenge. Many scriptures exhort us to remember that:

"If you keep on biting and devouring each other watch out or you will be destroyed by each other". Gal. 5:15
"… judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment." James 2:13
"Do not condemn and you will not be condemned." Lk. 6:37
"Who are you to judge someone else's servant?…God has accepted him." Rom. 14:4
"He who has been forgiven little loves little." Lk 7:47


Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/1/18 7:45Profile









 Re:

James and John were angry because the Samaritans "rejected their Lord Jesus".

They were reacting as foolishly as Peter, when he chopped off that guys ear.

A man where my husband used to work was 'witnessing' to an unsaved guy and the unsaved guy insulted the 'Witnesser' so the 'Witnesser' punched the unsaved guy and the fight had to be broken up by some of the bosses.

That's all this story or question represents.

I've found more Mercy on unsaved Disabled people's Forums than on any Christian Forum.
The suffering people showing mercy to each other and comforting another when they themselves are so very afflicted is a sight that must be seen to be believed. It is unbelievable. Some are actually dying on those forums.
There are a few of us Christians there, that witness Christ, but they don't reject or disallow that there, because heavy suffering brings something out of people, that now-presently healthy folks cannot fathom.

When you try to tell Christian folks on Christian Forums, that you are really and truly disabled, suffering and all that your disease entails, you're still ignored or challenged, even though you leave for a while to find help for your soul and body, you come back to no "how are you sister ?

Mercy is easy to talk about. And I've found, "any Christian virtue" is easy to talk about ... but I'd rather be talking to unsaved people and the afflicted and infirmed on their forums, so as to 'occupy until He comes', not just sit around and talk about what we "should be doing" or "be like" etc..

I've found more mercy on that Forum for the disabled, infirmed and dying then I've ever found from Christians who just sit and type about what they think about What Is Written or this & that.

If you ever want to do what the Lord has commanded we do, join an unsaved forum of some type and type to them about Jesus, because the night cometh when no man can work. Comfort the sick by visiting them with your computers. 'Whatever' you can do to fulfill Matt 25's latter verses.

thanks for letting me vent.

And all His Best Gifts of Evangelism and showing mercy to you all.


Edited to invite whosoever will to fulfill Matt 25 on just one site(there's lots more like it out there) where people are dying or suffering without the Lord.
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx

 2006/1/18 8:26









 Re: Know you what manner of spirit you are of?

MeAgain said

Quote:
Comfort the sick by visiting them with your computers. 'Whatever' you can do to fulfill Matt 25's latter verses.

thanks for letting me vent.

And all His Best Gifts of Evangelism and showing mercy to you all.


Edited to invite whosoever will to fulfill Matt 25 on just one site(there's lots more like it out there) where people are dying or suffering without the Lord.

Thank you for venting.

I've got to say I am surprised my question provided the opportunity - but, I did feel I should post it - and the Lord is speaking to me from both responses.... THANK YOU.

Diane said
Quote:
I can't think of a case where one of the apostles promoted vengeance over mercy.
However, that doesn't mean that the spirit isn't prevelant today.
One has to merely look at the way people react to wrongs to see that "spirit" of revenge is still on their hearts.
We are called to be instruments of God's mercy, not his revenge. Many scriptures exhort us to remember that

Are you saying, in a round-a-bout way, that Pentecost [b][i]did[/i][/b] make a difference to the 'spirit' of those men?

Do you think, then, (Diane) that a desire for vengeance is the [i]predominant[/i] feature of the unregenerate spirit?

 2006/1/19 8:26
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

ON the one hand, our spirit is regenerated and "does not sin" because it is in resurrection and is fully redeemed and pure. But in it's expressing through our unrenewed soul it becomes contaminated and impure.

When our spirit is expressed through our soul, it can become impure and mixed.

When our spirit is expressed and our soulish anger is mixed in, it becames an angry or rash spirit.

When we are regenerated our spirit is resurrected and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. But our soul is unrenewed in many aspects and needs the dealings of God, the breaking of the outer man and the dividing of our soul from our spirit to have a clear and pure and renewed channel for the expression of the Divine Life in our spirit.

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/19 17:31Profile









 Re:

Dorcas, you're post is FINE.

So are the replies from Diane and Graftedbranch.


I haven't met a "perfect person" yet... have you Dorcas ? ;-)


Love to you all and thanks again for your tolerance with me brethren.

[u]M.E. 'again'[/u]


Quote:
Graftedbranc wrote:
When we are regenerated our spirit is resurrected and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. But our soul is unrenewed in many aspects and needs the dealings of God, the breaking of the outer man and the dividing of our soul from our spirit to have a clear and pure and renewed channel for the expression of the Divine Life in our spirit.

Graftedbranch





Just one small thing, the soul doesn't need to be "divided" from our spirit, but by the same process you described, needs to learn to "yield" to the spirit.

That's probably what you meant. Maybe I just word it differently.

God Bless

 2006/1/19 18:12









 Re: Know you what manner of spirit you are of...?

Quote:
ON the one hand, our spirit is regenerated and "does not sin" because it is in resurrection and is fully redeemed and pure. But in it's expressing through our unrenewed soul it becomes contaminated and impure.

GB, I can't agree that the spirit becomes 'contaminated' by passing through 'our unrenewed soul'.

If it can become contaminated at all, it is through active sin (disobedience).

Thinking through your statement, you seem to be saying that if a regenerate person died suddenly, their soul might not be saved after all, if it was not clean at that moment....

This may be exactly what I was asking with the question at the top of the thread..... If a person is regenerate, then are they not of a clean and holy spirit, because of the indwelling Holy Spirit?

So then, if a person tells a lie, or uses bad language, or is violent - it is not a function of their spirit any more, as it was befor new birth, it is a function of the carnal mind or the life of the flesh, which has not been forced to comply with walking in the Spirit (so that the lust of the mind and of the flesh were not fulfilled).

Isn't this what Romans 7:22, 23 is about?
For I delight in [b][i]the law of God according to the inward man[/i][/b].
[b]But I see another law [u]in my members[/u], warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members[/b].

Can we say that 'my members' refers to the [i]outer man[/i]?

 2006/1/23 8:17
four4Him
Member



Joined: 2005/12/28
Posts: 27
Southern New Jersey

 Re:

Quote:
Are you saying, in a round-a-bout way, that Pentecost did make a difference to the 'spirit' of those men?



-Hi, Dorcas; Pentecost made a HUGE difference in the lives of the Apostles. They didn't have a full understanding of what Jesus was saying until the Holy Spirit came.. (Someone may not agree)..

-RE: Vengeance: Vengeance involves an outward expression that represents a predominant feature of the unregenerate spirit, but vengeance is only the response; the problem is much deeper: Jer. 17:9 - "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (AV). Our devotion determines our direction; those who devote themselves to satan will act like he does. Those who have a holy, Spirit-filled devotion to God will act like Jesus ("..as He is, so are we in this world."). Any of the "works of the flesh" (in Gal. 5) could be considered a predominant feature of an unregenerate spirit..

-Have a great day, everyone. Blessings!...


_________________
John

 2006/1/23 8:52Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Thinking through your statement, you seem to be saying that if a regenerate person died suddenly, their soul might not be saved after all, if it was not clean at that moment....



When we believe into Christ and are regenerated, our human spirit is made alive and we are indwelt by the Spirit of God. As Romans 8 says, "our spirit is life because of rightousness"

The salvation of our soul is a daily process. Our mind, the leading part of our soul is being renewed and our will is being subdued and our emotions are being transformed daily as we feed on Christ and walk by the Spirit.

At Christ's comming our bodies will be transfigured by the Same Spirit who indwells us.

Eternal Salvation is a matter of having the Eternal Life of God and if we are believers and are regenerated, we shall never perish.

But the salvation of our souls in a practical way is a matter of daily sanctification by the Spirit and is an organic process which we enter into and go through till we either die or the Lord returnes.

Salvation in the Bible is spoken of as both an accomplished fact and also as a process. We are positionally saved, justified and declared rightouse in Christ. But our dispositional experience of this salvation is an ongoin process.

For whom He did forknow, He did also predestinate to become conformed to the Image of His Son that He might be the First Born among many brothers.

IN the end, all who are His will be fully conformed and transformed to His image. Everything of the Old fallen creation will be dealt with by the Cross and we will be wholly in resurrection with Christ as our Life.


Graftedbranch

 2006/1/26 13:18Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
If it can become contaminated at all, it is through active sin (disobedience).



When we are saved and regenerated our spirit is made alive and indwelt by God Himself. IT is in resurrection and as John says, "that which is born of God does not sin".

But our soul, our mind, our will, and our emotions are only partially renewed through our initial repentance. There is still much of our old way of thinking, our old ambitions, our old concepts, our old natural disposition within us.

And if our heart is not pure and fully turned to the Lord we may express what is in our spirit but as it finds it's expression in us it become mixed and "contaminated" with our soulish concepts, our natural desires, our strong emotion, etc.

To be a transparent vessel requires much growth in life, much dealing with the Lord and much breaking of our outer man before we become transparent vessles able to express the Reality of the Spirit within us in a pure and undefiled way.

We need not only to be regenerated and indwelt by Christ, we need to be "strengthened with power by His Spirit into the inner man that Christ may make His home in our hearts.

We need the "Word of Christ' to dwell within us richly. We need to be wholly yielded, renewed, and transformed vessels to express the Life of God in a pure and complete way.

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/26 13:32Profile





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