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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 "You shall love the Lord"

"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is One! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart."

Would God command His people to do this, and not provide a way for the His people to obey His command?

Paul teaches, "There is none righteous, no, not one; there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God." Romans 3:10-11

We know by Hebrews chapter 11, that there were faithful men and women who lived before Jesus' incarnation. Faith defined their lives. Paul teaches that, "...faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17

Paul also teaches that, "...the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Final question, how do these thoughts that I have shared affect the teaching of dispensational theology?

As iron sharpen iron
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/10 13:49Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re: "You shall love the Lord"

A.W. Tozer taught that the Old Testament saints were born again. Sermon, Holy Spirit-Why some can't recieve...

Maybe this will stir some thought.

As iron sharpens iron.
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/15 12:16Profile
almondBranch
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Joined: 2003/10/6
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 The Glorified Lord and the Spirit

Quote:
A.W. Tozer taught that the Old Testament saints were born again



This is a concept that I could never understand and am surprised that so many teach it. Undoubtedly the OT saints had faith (which is the assurance of [u]things hoped for[/u]) Many enjoyed a relationship with God, many were anointed by the Spirit for a purpose. But none of this constitutes the new birth. The Holy Spirit is now given in a way that did not happen in the OT. Jesus said; "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, from within him shall flow rivers of living water. But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified." John 7:38-39

Stuart


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Stuart

 2003/12/15 13:29Profile
rookie
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 Re: The Glorified Lord and the Spirit

Quote:
John 7:38-39



Does this verse apply to Jesus' ministry on earth?

"but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross." Philippians 2:7-8

"And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." John 17:5

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines, For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them." Hebrews 13:8-9

As iron sharpens iron.
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/15 13:50Profile
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 Re: check the date

Jeff wrote:John 7:38-39
Does this verse apply to Jesus' ministry on earth?

Some years ago my 10 year old daughter was invited to a birthday party. She was very excited and dressed in a special party dress. We arrived at the destination and knocked on the door. I could see immediately by the surprise on the face of the person who opened the door that something was wrong.
"are we too early," I asked. "You are a week too early" came the answer.

It is very important to check the date on an invitation card. This 'come and drink' invitation has a very clear date. According to our verses given, when He made the invitation He was referring to the Holy Spirit, who was not yet 'given' because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Peter's answer to the question "what meaneth this?" in Acts 2 is that because Christ has been 'exalted' He has received the promise of the Spirit and has poured forth this...

As I see these scriptures Pentecost has to be the date on the invitation.


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Ron Bailey

 2003/12/15 14:10Profile
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 Re: The Glorified Lord and the Spirit

Quote:
Many enjoyed a relationship with God, many were anointed by the Spirit for a purpose. But none of this constitutes the new birth.



So, you mean to tell me the circumicised heart of an OT saint did not constitute the new birth? If a person has an intimate relationship with God, how can they not be born again? How can they not be partakers?

OT saints were born again, and had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Pentecost only constitutes a greater outpouring of the Holy Spirit, with such a magnitude as never seen prior.


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Jimmy H

 2003/12/15 15:14Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

The work of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was given to empower the Apostle for the work God has planned. The Holy Spirit came down upon Jesus, witnessed by John the Baptist. Did Jesus need to be born again? To have a relationship with God requires the work of the Holy Spirit first. Please read my thoughts posted today on original sin.

Galatians 5:28-29, "Now WE, brethren, as ISAAC WAS, ARE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him WHO WAS BORN ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT, even so it is now."

As iron sharpens iron
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/15 15:38Profile
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 Re:

preachingtocanibals wrote:So, you mean to tell me the circumicised heart of an OT saint did not constitute the new birth? If a person has an intimate relationship with God, how can they not be born again? How can they not be partakers?

Rom 4 asks the question 'what was Abraham's experience' and the remainder of the chapter answers the question. Abraham was justified by faith. As expanded/expounded by David that included 'inquities remitted', 'sins covered (atoned), 'sin not reckoned'. The end of the chapter widens it to show that we are not only talking about Abraham but about all who 'believe in Him'; all these folk experience what Abraham experienced.

Chap 5 starts where Chap 4 finished; justified by faith, and adds that we have 'peace with God' through Christ. The passage then continues by whom also. We are about to be introduced to the much more (4 times in this chapter)of the New Covenant. It includes 'access by faith into this grace in which we stand.

Romans 4 is the grace that Abraham found. Romans 5 is this grace that we find. It is everything that Abraham found, and much more. This is the grace that should come unto you, prophesied but not entered by the prophets of old [1 Pet 1:12] which is apparantly inseparable from the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven.

The Holy Spirit did not only come to empower them to do, but to indwell them with the life of Christ so that they might be. The One who had been with them would be in them.



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Ron Bailey

 2003/12/15 16:09Profile
rookie
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 Re:

Are we children of the same promise?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/15 18:20Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
So, you mean to tell me the circumicised heart of an OT saint did not constitute the new birth?



I do. The new birth is very closly related to Christ's ressurection. Before the ressurection of Christ people were not born from above. John the baptist had the Spirit, had a ministry and in fact was greater than anyone else born of a woman. But the least in the kingdom is greater than he. Was John not in the kingdom? To enter the kingdom which is from above you must first be born from above.


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Stuart

 2003/12/15 22:09Profile





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