SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Music etc

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )
PosterThread
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

I found CJaKfOrEsT's link useful for measuring my own change regarding this reoccurring topic. For what it's worth, I enjoy a wide variety of Christian music...from Michael W. Smith to Arvo Part...but I think these appetites, like all pleasures, should be kept in check, and used appropriately.

These days I am more apt to agree that Combat C's question is the right one. Radio friendly CCM is not really a concern to me one way of the other...it's the sanctuary worship music that I think needs more discussion and review.

Not to play a sour note here ;-) but I am sad by the emergence of casual social frivolity within the worship service. Perhaps some will disagree... I feel the church santuary should be a hallmark of reverence and Godly behavior that challenges us to live in the presence of God throughout the week. Yet, too often the santuary has become a people place instead of a Holy Spirit place. Contemporary church music is a big part of this problem...the so-called praise and worship movement has become a horizontal marketing tool...and no longer a vertical worship instrument.

At least this is my conclusion when I look back on my past 10-15 years playing on various worship teams.

Blessings all,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2006/8/19 1:49Profile
W_D_J_D
Member



Joined: 2006/1/13
Posts: 119


 Re:

heya all......

firstly i would love to stae that i hate secular music.

secondly i hate the majority of the so called "christian music" thats going around today.

thirdly i love the old hymns from Wesley and also i enjoy christian rap.......(which is only the old hymn style of poetry fastened up)

i know a lot of ppl hate christian rap in this forum because they state its "wordly"...........thus to those people i would love to ask these questions.

What genre of music do you listen to that has not originated in the world?

lol u have fell on your sword if you argue any more from there.....

anyway heres some music i love, from a christian rapper called "Trip Lee"

Trip Lee - ITOK - Gotta Grow
Song: Gotta Grow
Artist: Tony Stone
Album: If They Only Knew
 2006 Reach Records, LLC.

Gotta Grow

Verse 1:
I wasn’t never the type that’s tryna kill folks
Nothing too bad maybe dabbled in a lil smoke
A lil lust, but wasn’t never seen as a bad dude
Was livin for myself dreamed of wealth and makin cash move
Was told of a savior who raised named Jesus
That paid full of grace and I did believe it
They told me He would hold me and I was blessed wit Christ
I’m like, “I get to go to Heaven? Man I’m set for life.”
But after that, I was just ya average Sunday Christian
Up in church wit my bible, back Monday sinning
Up in the school yard trying hard to blend in
Was acting dead as a carcass and far from livin
I was all up in the world, I was just like the rest of them
Called myself a Christian, but would sin with the best of them
I wouldn’t share my faith or read my Word its crazy
I was a immature believer, a spiritual baby

Hook:
We gotta grow, we can’t stay in the same place
We gotta grow, we gotta be seeking His face
We gotta grow, so if you saved and you’ve been pardoned
We gotta grow, you ain’t done you just getting started
(Repeat)

Verse 2:
I was my own guide, would never dive in His truth
But didn’t realize that I was set aside for His use
So I’d just live for what I thought was my best interest
Around nonbelievers you couldn’t tell the difference
Wasn’t a thug, nah I ain’t got no horror story
But was living for myself not the Lord and His glory
My confession: I didn’t seek my Dad’s perfection
Was going down the wrong road like I had bad directions
Until He showed my not imitating the Christ
And living for me I was truly wasting my life
And that Christ died so I could have relationship
But by my actions I refused to take this gift
Until He made a switch and now I want some more of Him daily
By His grace I’m growing and have matured from a baby
I’m so grateful that I’ve been torn from sin
And day by day He’s making me more like Him

Hook

Verse 3:
So for my believers, I just wanna encourage yall
To draw closer to the Lord I know you heard His call
Even if you ain’t smoking or shooting at domes
If you don’t do it all for His glory, you doing it wrong
Heaven ain’t the only reason we got saved
If we don’t get to know Jesus then we got played
Plus we gotta change, He said He’d change us all
And that faith without fruit, that ain’t faith at all
Sanctification, check Romans 6
We ‘posed to switch, die to sin and grow in holiness
All my brothers and sister I know this walk is tough
But even if you young just getting saved is not enough
We gotta talk to Him, read who the Lord in the skies is
The reason we breathe is to enjoy and glorify Him
I’m grateful the Father is changing ya boy
And getting closer to Him is an unexplainable joy

Hook


God bless yall!

 2006/8/19 2:04Profile
W_D_J_D
Member



Joined: 2006/1/13
Posts: 119


 Re:

Here's another song that i enjoy by a sold out believer named Lecrae.


116 Clique - Fanatic
Song: Fanatic
Artist: Lecrae
Album: The Compilation Album
 2005 Reach Records, LLC.

Fanatic

I'm a F-A-N-A-T-I-C, Fanatic
I rep Christ till I D-I-E, Fanatic
I'm not extreme, I'm redeemed with faith
to serve a God whose extremely great
I'm a Fanatic

The world's trying to tidy up, exfoliate they skin
but only Christ can come and exfoliate they sin
And they fate look grim, If they don't take him
As the high priest he is to mediate they sin
The world's got to many Gods, man we choose the one
From hebrews, he rules, he bruised his son
He moves the sun
So if we prayin and our schools call us fools
Cuz our God's too true to shun
Channels two in one
Man it looks insane
TV make a lot Christians seem dramatically strange
Though we may be looked upon as one and same
We will not turn in shame, we proclaim the name
Christ Jesus, believe us, you ain't gotta recieve us
but we gon' follow our God wherever the bible lead us
And you can call us dramatic, fanatic, emphatic
But hate while you at it, take a look at our mathematics

Chorus

What can I do to make it simple, make it plain
Christ came, emptied himself and let out sin hang him
You couldn't blame him for any sin
While they singing many men
The crucifixion was pretty grim
But when we state the fact that God resurrects
We get funny looks from a world that doesn't get
We are not David Koresh or Krishna
Or the people on TV who glorifying their bishop
From Edwards to Piper, MacAurther to Spurgeon
From Dallas to France, From Cali to Berlin
As Christians all over who getting the word in
We ain't crazy we just understand the truth and we burdened
The world sees us as evangelical Christians
As narrow-minded fanatics with a mythical mission
Labeled extremists for sharing out faith
But thats cool, we can carry the weight of persecution
Cuz earth is losing
And if we yelling the truth
We honored to be the people that our God is using
So keep it moving
Cuz if we yelling the truth
We honored to be the people that our God is using

Chorus

They thought Jesus was out of his mind
they laughed and mocked him
Called him a cult leader and they tried to stop him
Pharisees said Christ got his power from Satan
Hatin', on the very one that came to save 'em
Even after he rose, man the world ain't changed
They still rejecting the name, still look at us strange
Still tell us without shame that our faith's insane
and, "it don't take all that to be a Christian man"
And its hard when you tryin to reach your family and stuff
They say man, "you too spiritual, you doing to much"
So we show them the love of Christ and live in the light
So they can glorify our God when they look at our life
And we win for sharing the truth and hearts get changed
We win if we're rejected because of his name
We win if seeds get planted and watered and grow
But even if we lost, we still be Fanatical though

Chorus

 2006/8/19 2:12Profile









 Re: Music etc.

Compton said:

Quote:
Contemporary church music is a big part of this problem...the so-called praise and worship movement has become a horizontal marketing tool...and [b]no longer a vertical worship instrument[/b].

Isn't the term 'praise and worship' a bit of a con in itself? Both 'praise' and 'worship' have their places in scripture, and they are very distinctly different.

Are Christians being spiritually misinformed by this trite phraseology?

 2006/8/19 6:12
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: the dilemma of loose terms

Quote:
Isn't the term 'praise and worship' a bit of a con in itself? Both 'praise' and 'worship' have their places in scripture, and they are very distinctly different.

Are Christians being spiritually misinformed by this trite phraseology?


Dorcas, isn’t this the typical fate of a lot of our words and phrases– they are really just loose terms that have become defined by our usage – which doesn’t necessarily reflect their true meaning, or even their use outside the church subculture. I call it “shoptalk” - clichés, really.

Ex:
contemporary
traditional
hymn
chorus
gospel
new age (style)
“worshipful”
sacred
secular
praise
worship
prayerful
“from the heart”
spirit-filled

any more?

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/8/19 8:05Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: The value of authority

I just completed an intense week at a summer music festival - working along with 500 + staff and students from ages four to seventy-four, of multi ethnic/national origin from beginners to international artists, from Bach to Jazz, from quiet meditative singing to energetic bands.

To me, the experience was spiritually enriching. Yet I was reluctant to share on SI - not wanting to become overly wearisome about my musical-related musings. So I laid out a fleece: The topic of music would come to the surface. And alas - I returned to SI and this thread was up on the top.

AUTHORITY – A PREREQUISITE TO BEAUTIFUL MUSIC

Last night while watching the best of the musicians perform various musical group numbers, I could not help but be impressed by their submission to the leader. All were focused was on the conductor. Not one made even the tiniest peep outside of his desire. If earlier on there had been any disagreements, I could not tell. All ego-centric desires and differences were all washed away during those glorious moments of musical presentation. And the audience jumped up for joy.

Each performer in the concert was an authority in his/her field, and yet understood the need to submit to authority – but not merely during that event last night - clearly, they had learned to live a life of submission to those who had more authority (knowledge, skill, etc) than they had.

I thought about the value of submitting to divine authority – to lay aside our ego-centric desires and instead center our entire will, heart, and mind on the will of God. Oh, this is no passive condition where we sit back and “let” the Spirit do whatever through us. If musicians viewed submission like that, you’d have a very immature group and a wishy-washy sound.

Submission takes effort – focus and concentration, and intense self-discipline, and self-control. It is an entire life-style. That is really the life Christ calls us to.

In our age of individualism and do-your-own-thingism, we have stopped seeing the need to surrender our ego-centric desires, and submit to those who are given (and indeed HAVE) authority. And the result: we are wasting so much potential.


I’ve often wondered why our churches (of all places) are plagued with problems that reflect an embarrassing level of immaturity. Why is it that so much turmoil revolves around the kind of music that is actually associated with adolescent pop culture? Why have we sunk so low?

I suspect that our church authorities (and also parents) - those who have been delegated authority, actually do not HAVE authority, because they themselves have never lived submissive lives. They think that they have arrived, so they never care to grow. You can’t expect people to rise above their authorities.

“A student is not above his teacher,
nor a servant above his master.” Matt. 10:24

Perhaps the best way to overcome immaturity issues in our churches is not so much by addressing of fighting them (won’t help), but by ourselves submitting to our Lord and seeking to grow in maturity and understanding. After all, our words will carry very little authority (weight) if we ourselves have not lived the life of submission to authorities in the areas we are addressing – divine and or/and human.


_________________
Diane

 2006/8/19 10:22Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Thanks much for the insights, wisdom, and experience Dorcas and Roadsign.

Dorcas, regarding the trite use of words in the church, I certainly agree. On a related side note, it would be interesting to see how much this condition has been influenced by the American retailing of Christianity. It's fair to say that "Praise and Worship" isn't employed for it's biblical history....it's a product category within the Christian Booksellers Association. (edit: I'm not decrying the CBA...just pointing out it's possible influence on how we think and talk about church.)Words like contemporary, classic, praise and worship, prophetic, pastoral, devotional, leadership, and many others now function as niche categories at retail...they tell us what kind of book, or music, or conference we are purchasing. This subtle daily saturation on product placement doesn't seem odd to us, untill perhaps we would ever hear someone outside of our borders using our familiar Christian-retail speak.

Diane, it sounds like you were at a high caliber workshop! I really like seeing a well-led ensemble do what they do...it really can serve as picture of the body of Christ. Inversely....I would also say that the impuslive, undesciplined contemporary music of the day also serves as a metaphor.

Quote:
those who have been delegated authority, actually do not HAVE authority, because they themselves have never lived submissive lives

I thought this was crucial to understanding our current delimma.

In the end I have to admit, I am not over preoccupied about church music one way or the other. Perhaps this is because I see it as an art for worship rather then a heart for worship.

To be frank, inspite of the irony that Praise and Worship music is the leading Christian music category at retail, I don't think the North American church is very worshipful...so it seems rather obnoxious for us to contantly be turning up our amplifiers and banging on our drums everytime we come together. Perhaps humble silence, reflections of abasement and adoration at the altar, might just be the most apt spiritual, musical (and artistic) expression of the emptiness of glory in our churches.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2006/8/19 12:25Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: the order

Quote:
seems rather obnoxious for us to contantly be turning up our amplifiers


My goodness, Compton, I just realized - we didn’t even use the sound system last night! - and to think - there was sure plenty of sound. I know, that's not your point, but I do get it - the futility of frantically using our music to attain something.
Quote:
Diane, it sounds like you were at a high caliber workshop!


Really we were all a bunch of learners, teachers, and performers to some degree doing all three. I think some of the best were closest to the ground.

By the way, there was a zero tolerance policy regarding unacceptable behavior. I think all the kids were too busy being challenged to get in trouble. There's an idea to translate into the Christian experience, that is – commercial Christianity can never give one genuine God-respect, personal dignity and self-respect. And without that, how can one respect others?

Last week I even found myself (of all things) teaching men to sing bass. Let me tell you, they were a humble lot – willing to hang in. It was immensely rewarding to see them so thrilled about their progress. Again, there is a spiritual parallel.

Quote:
I am not over preoccupied about church music one way or the other.


I would also say that music is not that big a deal in my Christian walk. In itself, it certainly is not my means to spiritual growth or divine experience.
Quote:
Perhaps this is because I see it as an expression of worship rather then the heart of worship.


Reading the Psalms today, I got a strong sense that music/singing was indeed an expression of the psalmists inner experience rather than a means to attaining an inner experience. I'll put this thought into a question: Is worship the outcome of musical expression, or is musical expression the outcome of worship?


Quote:
Perhaps humble silence, for abasement and adoration, might just be the most apt musical and artistic expression of the departure of glory from our churches.



Wouldn't it be amazing if this happened - not only pubically in church, but also privately.

Dare we rest our ears from constant sound, and listen to the silence............ and the still voice of God.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/8/19 16:04Profile
Combat_Chuck
Member



Joined: 2006/1/27
Posts: 202


 Re:

Quote:

Quote:
Perhaps humble silence, for abasement and adoration, might just be the most apt musical and artistic expression of the departure of glory from our churches.



Wouldn't it be amazing if this happened - not only pubically in church, but also privately.

Dare we rest our ears from constant sound, and listen to the silence............ and the still voice of God.

Diane


But it would be so boring!???! ;-)


_________________
Combat Chuck

 2006/8/19 18:53Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy