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Discussion Forum : Miracles that follow the plow : Kid Smokes In Church, Get's Jesus Christ

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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi DesiJr...

Quote:
believe that church is the body of Christ.....is that not a biblical definition?

The body of Christ should be a Holy place....do you not agree?

Somehow, somewhere along the line people changed the church to a place that where nonbelievers get saved.

I agree with what you are saying about the need to bring evangelism [b]outside[/b] of the walls of a "Church" building. You're right -- somewhere along the line, the focus of modern evangelism became concerned with "bringing people to Church."

But you might also want to remember that -- somewhere along the line, the concept of "Church" also changed. It became a "place where Christians gathered to worship two or three (or even more) times a week." The early Church met [u]daily[/u] in their homes and on streets (or in places like "[i]Solomon's Colonade[/i]"). But somewhere along the line, the Church began building [i]temples[/i] -- and began relying on those physical temples. Some even began calling those "temples" (or "sanctuaries") a "holy place." But such a building is no more "holy" than a certain mountain where Moses received the tablets of the Law. Yet many modern believers treat a Church building like it is "holy ground."

There is a wonderful book available called "[i]The Cross and the Switchblade[/i]." It tells about a simple country preacher who went to the streets of New York City to bring the Good News of Jesus Christ to the most dangerous gangs in the city. As a result, many of those gang members surrendered their lives to the Lord, and many are now preaching the Gospel.

This same preacher, Dave Wilkerson, wrote another book called "[i]Twelve Angels from Hell[/i]." In this book, Dave Wilkerson says something like, "The gutter is my pulpit..." Today, there are so many believers that have turned their local "churches" into temples. A "church building" is not a temple. Your body is a temple.

I have traveled to the indigenous Tarahumara of the rugged and remote Sierra Madre Occidental mountains of Chihuahua, Mexico. The believers there met in caves and beneath trees to worship the Lord together. Often, there were Tarahumara that would come that did not know the Lord. Sometimes, they brought "questionable" objects and habits to these assemblies. But none were turned away. These things were no match for the Spirit of the Lord! Consequently, the local Church there has grown to several hundred believers.

I believe that as a true Church, we need to forsake our "traditions of men" (including some "godly men"). If we do, we might have a much better opportunity to reach this world. Week after week, our modern "sanctuaries" hold meetings where they are run in much the same way (with similar setup and rules) as a Broadway play. Preachers warn women to remove their crying babies so that they do not "quench the Spirit of the Lord." If a crying baby (or cell phone, or unskilled musician, etc...) can stop the Lord from moving in the life of another -- then something is wrong. The Lord doesn't need our special lighting, music, or "spiritual atmosphere."

Yes, there needs to be propriety (a decency and order) in our meetings. But let us not forget [u]who[/u] it is that we are meeting. In the past, the Lord has met with men as they marched with murderous zeal to Damascus, rode in chariots, mended their fishing nets and even while one hung dying on a cross (next to Jesus). We mustn't sit with a suspicious attitude when someone comes to Christ. Rather we should rejoice with the angels in Heaven!

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2006/1/12 22:55Profile
DesiJr
Member



Joined: 2006/1/6
Posts: 113


 Re:

My brothers in Christ,
I believe somewhere along the line we got a little sidetracked here. I am sorry if I was unclear in my posts.

The i was moved to respond to the smoking issue because of the compromising that takes place.

Every generation gets more and more bold to be more and more disrespectful of not only worldly things but things of Christ as well.

This is not about the building. I never meant to say that the building was Holy. I was trying to say the gathering itself is Holy. Thats what makes it the body of Christ the believers in the gathering.

I myself make alter calls in my home study group, plus my church does alter calls on Sunday. I believe it is a great way to establish relationships between believers and non-believers, in order to begin the descipleship process.

But I would never consider anyone who responds to an alter call saved. I would never tell any other person that he is saved. That is not me to judge. That is only for God the Father to judge. And by telling people that we are giving them false security.

So when you say that someone was smoking and then he is a child of God, I just put up a yellow flag and say, well brother,
how long have you witnessed his pilgrimage. Have you seen him not only speak but move in a way that exemplifies someone who is walking with Christ? And if you have he is a Christian, or a disciple, or whatever you want to call him, but certainly not saved, yet.

The point of my posting was you calling him saved and waiting until after the meeting to approach him. Instead I believe you should have paused the meeting for 30 seconds. Explain to him that smoking is not allowed at the meeting but you would love his attendance there. And move on with the meeting. If he didnt come to the Lord right then and there, its not your job. You stay true to the gospel and move forward.

What do you think Jesus did when he went to the temple and saw people in sin at the temple? He kicked them out.

When they repented they were allowed back I'm sure.
we have grown soft to sin. I, like you, wish that ever last person who ever lived makes it to heaven. So my obligation to Christ is to witness and evangelize and disciple men. But at the same time without compromise.

Did Jesus lower his standards for the Rich Young Ruler? No, he was sad that he couldn't forsake his sin but he didnt lower his standards.

I love you guys,
Desi, Jr.

 2006/1/13 11:09Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

I'm not an advocate for smoking in buildings (anywhere for that matter), but I'm wondering if the ones who Jesus threw out were hypocrites or blatant sinners?

I wonder if these verses go along the same lines.

1Cr 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

1Cr 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

What does everyone think?


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2006/1/13 11:44Profile
DesiJr
Member



Joined: 2006/1/6
Posts: 113


 Re:

My brother,

I think the texts you site bring to mind that we are not to compromise the body of Christ with people who have made a desicion to be slaves to sin instead of Christ.

Now if an unrepentant heart shows up to a service by all means don't kick him out.....but do not water down the gospel so this heathen won't be offended, but instead move forward with the preaching for the believers, and if he sticks around then we should move forward with a call for him to repent.

Instead the body is to move out into the world and preach righteousness by word and example and bring new believers into the body of Christ.

I think this is how the "seeker-sensitive" movement has grown to such power. We are preaching a gospel in the body to people who are not believers. When then are believers going to hear preachers of righteousness calling for holy living if the whole time pastors are preaching messages trying to appeal to the lost in the congregation.

Messages for the lost should be preached in the streets not in the meeting of believers.

My desire is the we honor Christs' sacrifice through Holy living and discipling the people that He has given us out of this world!

Desi, Jr.

 2006/1/13 14:10Profile





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