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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Systematic Theology and the Talmud

What do the Talmud and the hundreds of books on systematic theology have in common? Both are written by men who attempt to define God's ways and desires for us. Both will lead man away from God. Only the word of God can lead a man by the Holy Spirit to Jesus. All other attempts are vanity.

Paris Reidhead in Ten Shekels and a Shirt identifies the evangelical churches regression into vanity. Paraphrasing Reidhead, "The men of three generations ago knew God. And from the their relationship with God, mighty works were done in their generation. The writings and thoughts generated in their day have been passed down to this generation. And now this generation professes belief in those men's thoughts."

Without a relationship, without being saved by "The Life," we who believe in the thoughts of men will never enter into the New Covenant life. We will whither in the wilderness. The church of this generation will be impotent.

Andrew Murray in the Holiest of All, page 366 writes, "He is able to save completely. Salvation is a subjective, experimental thing--manifest in the peace and holiness of heart He gives. We, our life, our inner man, our heart, our will and affections, are to be delivered from the power of sin, and to taste and enjoy the putting away of sin as a blessed experience. In our very heart we are to find and feel the power of His redemption. As deep and strong as sin proved itself in its actual power and its mastery within us, is Jesus to prove the triumph of redeeming grace.

His one work as Priest over the house of God is to bring us into it, and enable us to live there. He does this by bringing God and the soul into actual harmony, sympathy, and fellowship with each other."

As Paris Reidhead condemned the humanistic poison of the gospel we share today, so has Andrew Murray identified the poison of his day. It is okay to sin, God love you.

As iron sharpen iron


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/6 13:34Profile
Chosen7Stone
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Joined: 2003/7/21
Posts: 268
FL, USA

 Re: Systematic Theology and the Talmud

Sharing half a gospel might make way for half a relationship -- how in the world would I respond to God's questioning of doing such a foolish and selfish thing?


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Mary M.

 2003/12/6 14:27Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
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 Re: Systematic Theology and the Talmud

Jeff wrote: What do the Talmud and the hundreds of books on systematic theology have in common? Both are written by men who attempt to define God's ways and desires for us. Both will lead man away from God. Only the word of God can lead a man by the Holy Spirit to Jesus. All other attempts are vanity.

I wonder if you have ever thought that you would never have heard of either Paris Reidhead or Andrew Murray if they had not diligently studied lots of those books of systematic theology?


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Ron Bailey

 2003/12/6 14:45Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Hi philologos,

Again you are correct, and I want to say this in a loving way. We hear these men today because they have been influenced by systematic theology. You see, if we listened to Jesus speak to us through the Holy Spirit, all these books on self help and methods to find God would be rendered useless. The printing presses and commercial activity would cease. Then we would have the only book we ever needed, His Word.

I doubt that many authors would see their thoughts printed who do not fit into the parameters of what is deemed safe theology.

abiding in Christ


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/6 16:59Profile
jeremyhulsey
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Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re:

Hi Jeff,

I want to say that I appreciate your desire to want to know the Living Word and not just a bunch of printed pages. But everyone has a systematic theology. This is the system by which someone looks at what the whole Bible teaches on particular doctrines. Everyone who is a Bible believing Christian falls back on some sort of systematic theology to define their beliefs.

Like you, I wish many theologians would come out of their ivory towers and get a little heart knowledge, but I am glad to say that there have always been many who have done just that. A. W. Tozer is considered one of the great theologians of the 20th century. He preached for people to know not just the word of God, but the God of the word. The Church's greatest theologian of course was Paul. He was trained from his youth in the scriptures in one of the greatest rabinnicle (I think that's how you spell it) schools of his day.

I would say the lack of proper theology has opened the church up today to some of the greatest doctrinal heresies of all time. Lack of the knowledge of the word of God has unleashed upon unsuspecting christians a plethora of ear-ticklers who prophecy lies and deceit to adoring crowds of biblicaly illiterate christians.

My signature was inspired by studying men who loved God and His truth. Truth without fire is dead: men can know the Bible from one end to the other, but unless it's brought to life by the Holy Ghost, it's mere academics. Fire without truth is deadly: men who mishandle to word of God, who build people up to some psychotic frenzy, then take their money, leave people still trapped in the bondage of sin thinking they are free. We need the truth on fire: The Holy word of God preached by holy redeemed men, reaching the lost and making them holy.

Great men of God from the past:

John Chrysostom; trained by one of the greatest teachers of rhetoric in the East. Chrysostom is probably one of the best preachers in all of church history.

John Hus; trained in the college of Prague, and was the administrater of the college. Was martyred by the Catholic Church for being the first to break from it.

William Tyndale: Began Translating the Bible into the common language of his countrymen.

John Wesley: Graduated from Oxford University. Required his ministers to study five hours a day.

Jonathon Edwards: If I remember correctly, he was over Princeton University.

"Any mediocer preacher can hope to have a couple of good sermons in his lifetime, but every great preacher from the past has been a man of great study." ~Professor Crabtree, Central Bible College~

In Christ,
Jeremy Hulsey


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2003/12/6 18:34Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

I many times sign off with the words, as iron sharpen iron. For this precept is a blessing to all who partake. Fellowship through Jesus is a wonderful gift of God.

Many today repeat what they read. Tozer called this phenomena textualism. They believe in the words of the Bible, never coming to the understanding of the power of God. Yet because they recite the words, they believe the words make up the understanding. Only by the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire do we receive His provisions.

I stumbled across this site because of Tozer. Not because of his intellect but because he knows God. We have fellowship through His Spirit. Our hearts sing a new song. I pray that all would learn this song.

That is why I chose to compare the Talmud to systematic theology. One may sow another water but it is God who gives the increase. We are like the Israelites who trembled before God's voice. We stumble as they did. They asked Moses to intercede for them. And again we look to creation and not the Creator.

sing a new song


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/6 22:15Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Husley wrote: But everyone has a systematic theology.

I thought about your response this weekend. Thankyou for the reading list. We read to know that we are not alone.

I can only base my response to what I know. In my walk I have found that the word "systematic,' when applied to my knowing Him, has always been the opposite of my preconceived notions. Thus the word of God is living, and our High Priest, "has an unchangeable priesthood." Hebrews 7:24 God is the same always and He continues to change me. He work is always fresh and alive.

As you have said about the ivory tower theologians, I agree. Yet many follow them to there destruction. Jesus warned us of these.

"Those by the wayside are the ones who hear: then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts; lest they should believe and be saved." Luke 8:12

The word was heard initially and it was implanted by God into their hearts, but satan came as a thief!

As I reach out, I fail miserably, I appreciate your willingness to teach and exhort. Fellowship is a precept of God. It is living.

Thankyou Jeremy


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/8 11:33Profile
rookie
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 Re:

I listened to two sermons of Paris Reidhead. I will paraphase his thoughts. He said, "The Bible does not teach systematic theology. It teaches responsibility. The believer is responsible to God through prayer, worship, and obedience to His commands in our lives. Men create systematic theology. Paris said he has no problem with man's attempt to understand God's ways, but his theology must not deny his responsibity to God.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/1/13 12:34Profile
Agent001
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Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

I totally agree with Hulsey on this issue. Whether educated or not, all Christians are, in practice, theologians -- we all consciously or unconsciously form ideas and perspectives about God. The question is whether these theologies are good or bad.

There is nothing [i]intrinsically[/i] wrong about systematic theology. The problem comes only when preoccupation with the right doctrine dominates our agenda to an extent that we lose sight of the living God.

I guess systematic theology had gained a bad name especially when liberal theology was rampant in Christian institutions. However, I think we should not therefore place systematic theology in opposition to vital and genuine faith.

After all, zeal without knowledge is simply the other extreme -- religious zeal and experiences without knowledge is just as (or more) dangerous (Romans 10:1-2).

I once heard Gordon Fee, professor of New Testament at Regent College, said that what evangelical theologians need to be today is [b][i]scholars on fire[/i][/b]. That is so true. He himself already set up a good example.

I was thinking of John Calvin's [i]Institutes of Christian Religion[/i], which is an unsurpassed masterpiece in Christian theology -- even to those who disagree with him. What's often neglected though, is how his passion for God and devotion to God permeate through the pages. One does not have to be a Calvinist to appreciate this work.


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Sam

 2004/1/19 5:57Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

In the promise of the New Covenant it states, "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know Me, [b]from the least of them to the greatest of them..."[/b] Jeremiah 31:34

I stated in another thread the only correct system I see in Scriptures. Yes, Lord, O how good you are to me. No Lord, outch! Man am I stupid, thankyou Lord. What's next Lord?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/1/22 10:37Profile





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