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Discussion Forum : General Topics : How do you deal with a lying spirit?

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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 6601
Mississippi

 How do you deal with a lying spirit?

I have a question for all of you: how do you deal with a lying spirit? Is it possible for someone with a lying spirit to actually 'forget' something they have said?

I would appreciate any imput from anyone who has insight into this problem, or who has had experience with it.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
“If you wish to know God, you must know His Word. If you wish to perceive His power, you must see how He works by His Word. If you wish to know His purpose before it comes to pass, you can only discover it by His Word.” (Charles Spurgeon)

 2005/12/30 23:50Profile









 Re: How do you deal with a lying spirit?

Quote:
Is it possible for someone with a lying spirit to actually 'forget' something they have said?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'a lying spirit'. How have you reached this description of the problem? Is this a child or an adult?

Do you see the solution as a matter of deliverance, or, are there other issues which have forced the person to begin lying in the first place (for which there could be reasons).

I've been lied to by important people in my life (at the time) continuously, such that the Lord had to minister to me with a combination of deliverance and reassurance that I could never be lied to again.... that I would always be able to discern lying in the future, which I believe I can, now.

Anyone with any unclean spirit, would need to want to be delivered from it, before prayer for deliverance is practicable.

EDIT Depending on the reason for the lying, it is eminently possible a person would lose track of things they have said (or promised). If the person's personality has been split up, as a result of abuse, then this is not just likely - it's inevitable. In this case, I would not be majoring on their need to stop lying, but on their need for healing, because that's the root of the problem.... could say much more about this, and recommend reading, if that's helpful.

 2005/12/31 6:43
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:Spirit of Lying

Quote:
I've been lied to by important people in my life (at the time) continuously, such that the Lord had to minister to me with a combination of deliverance and reassurance that I could never be lied to again.... that I would always be able to discern lying in the future, which I believe I can, now.



That seems to be a very dangerous assumption sister and with all due respect I would be lying if I was to let this pass on by without mention. Could this not in itself be a lie whispered in your ear by the adversary? What of the lies we tell ourselves even without intention? There is an awful lot of ramifications that could come from this, one being that deadly 'gift of suspicion' mentioned elsewhere in these parts.

Discernment is one thing, but do we not yet know ourselves? Psa 119:29 [i]Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously[/i].
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote:
I have a question for all of you: how do you deal with a lying spirit? Is it possible for someone with a lying spirit to actually 'forget' something they have said?

I would appreciate any imput from anyone who has insight into this problem, or who has had experience with it.



1Ki 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
1Ki 22:24 But Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near, and smote Micaiah on the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?

2Ch 18:20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
2Ch 18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
2Ch 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.
2Ch 18:23 Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?
2Ch 18:24 And Micaiah said, Behold, thou shalt see on that day when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Reference wise the best possibilities seem to be towards "prophets" and frankly it may be more endemic now than ever. Despite the constant warnings in scripture and even the requirement of spiritual honesty... [i]I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.[/i] Jer 23:21
Have had more than I care to know of this in former days...

Could you give an example of what you mean by this? I hate to assume but there is something of this that recalls a certain school of thought...
"The spirit of_____" With each having a specific 'department', know we have touched on this before and think it is an important area to look at. Will see if I can dig it up.


_________________
Mike Balog

[i]Here I found the benefit of a principle which I invariably adopt, of never pressing upon any human being my sentiments or wishes, without an absolute necessity. If a friend be reduced to the necessity of refusing or complying, he will feel grieved: but if, though with pain to himself, he do anything without being importuned, he has a sweet feeling of love excited by that very act; or, it he refrain from doing what you wish, he feels a love to you for not pressing him against his will.[/i] ~ Charles Simeon

 2005/12/31 8:51Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:The Spirit of_____

Here is something along the lines I mentioned, you may prefer to jump into the middle there to get the jist of it. Philologo's post in the middle drawing out the concerns quite well, look for "[b]Comment 1. Comment 2[/b]"

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1353&forum=36&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=1]What is "sin"?[/url]


_________________
Mike Balog

[i]Here I found the benefit of a principle which I invariably adopt, of never pressing upon any human being my sentiments or wishes, without an absolute necessity. If a friend be reduced to the necessity of refusing or complying, he will feel grieved: but if, though with pain to himself, he do anything without being importuned, he has a sweet feeling of love excited by that very act; or, it he refrain from doing what you wish, he feels a love to you for not pressing him against his will.[/i] ~ Charles Simeon

 2005/12/31 9:41Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 6601
Mississippi

 Re:

So you want more details so you will know how to answer......

The woman is an adult, very religious. When you listen to her talk she is very smooth and 'loving'. When she expounds on scripture she mixes new age philosophy with her teaching: 'God NEVER uses confrontation to bring people to Himself'is the most recent one. Earlier she said feelings are more important then truth; she teaches a touchy/feely message; she knows very little about God yet claims to be a strong Christian. Now this is the philosophical level. On the practical level there have been outright lies for which she denies of having ever said.

I simply do not know how to handle it. Frankly, I am scared of her because of her charms...she can so easily rope you in and get you on her bandwagon. On the other hand Jesus died for me and to HIM I owe my salvation and allegience regardless of the circumstances.

Dorcas, you mentioned abuse as a contributing factor....this may be true. She claims to have been abused, but how can I know with her tract record of lying? Her mother says she is a rebellious child...Who knows?

Yes, she does function like two different persons. One minute it seems she is talking in the power of the Holy Spirit and the next a foreign spirit which is chilling.

Now I suppose I hear people think 'I do not want to get involved in personal disputes', and I do not blame you. But the question remains: how do you deal with lying?

ginnyrose


_________________
“If you wish to know God, you must know His Word. If you wish to perceive His power, you must see how He works by His Word. If you wish to know His purpose before it comes to pass, you can only discover it by His Word.” (Charles Spurgeon)

 2005/12/31 9:46Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 6601
Mississippi

 Re:

Extremely interesting thread you sent me to...one that will make one go back and reread several times. Thanks for the link.

Now to my question: you are suggesting the problem to be demonic? and if so, the battle is barely heating up....this will require more and more time spent alone with God...I enjoy the time spent with God but to confront the demonic...LORD have mercy on me!!!

ginnyrose


_________________
“If you wish to know God, you must know His Word. If you wish to perceive His power, you must see how He works by His Word. If you wish to know His purpose before it comes to pass, you can only discover it by His Word.” (Charles Spurgeon)

 2005/12/31 10:09Profile
Nellie
Member



Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re:

Ginnyrose
Thank-you for being honest.
I know where you are coming from, because there are people in our Church who are fooling a lot of people by the same personality you mentioned.
When new people come to Church they surround them and get them to believe the same way they do, which is a false Doctrine.
They will lie, or do whatever they have to do to keep control.
The Young people are being led down the same road.
No growth, just control.
I know I'm leaving myself open for rebuke, but I don't try to deal with them.
The Spirit filled people in our Church know they aren't for real, but no one says anything, and if someone does say something, which I have in the past, we are rebuked for it.
You may ask why am I still there?
I don't know why I'm still there, except we have some wonderful people there who love the Lord, and I know there isn't any perfect Churches.
I couldn't belong to it if there were.
I sincerely ask God for direction concerning what I'm supposed to do, and would welcome your Prayers.

I pray that God will show you what to do if anything, and that He will give you His Peace and Rest.
I know how it grieves the Spirit of God in you.
The lying, but like someone else posted, if they don't want deliverance, then until God shows them,
and the Spirit of God draws them, they will continue lying and deceiving.

We are in the last days, so I personally believe we will see more of this as time goes on.

God Bless you
Nellie

 2005/12/31 10:11Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: How do you deal with a lying spirit?

ginnyrose asks:

Quote:
I have a question for all of you: how do you deal with a lying spirit? Is it possible for someone with a lying spirit to actually 'forget' something they have said?


At the risk of this sounding too simplistic... if God gives discernment of its presence He will show you what to do about it. Diagnosis is not the same as discernment.


_________________
His/yours
Ron B
www.biblebase.com

"Love perfecteth what it begins;

Thy power doth save me from my sins;

Thy grace upholdeth me.

This life of trust, how glad, how sweet;

My need and Thy great fulness meet,

And I have all in Thee.

Jean Sophia Pigott (1845-1882)

 2005/12/31 10:40Profile









 Re:


ginnyrose,
There is only one way to handle this matter and that is to tell this woman how she is sinning against God and needs to repent and if she doesn't repent then don't have any fellowship with her.
If she decides to have fellowship with you and not talk about new age philosophy than great but if she doesn't than you'll just have to keep correcting her till she gives up and leaves you alone.Every time she brings it up though I would correct her and if she gets argumentative than have nothing to do with her.
You might have to just keep correcting her until she leaves you alone.If your not a very confrontational person than the devil knows our weakness and that may be why this is happening to you.When the devil turns up the heat you have to just throw it right back.Sometimes it will really cost you all depending on who your dealing with.I had a problem with a directors wife once.
If she is doing this knowing it upsets you than she is probably a very strongwilled and rebellious woman.You may just see a less sweeter side of her that you've never seen before before this is all over but hold your ground.





 2005/12/31 11:06
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:Difficult...

Quote:
The woman is an adult, very religious. When you listen to her talk she is very smooth and 'loving'. When she expounds on scripture she mixes new age philosophy with her teaching: 'God NEVER uses confrontation to bring people to Himself'is the most recent one. Earlier she said feelings are more important then truth; she teaches a touchy/feely message; she knows very little about God yet claims to be a strong Christian. Now this is the philosophical level. On the practical level there have been outright lies for which she denies of having ever said.



This came readily to mind;

Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
Act 16:19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers,
Act 16:20 And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city,
Act 16:21 And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.

A bit of commentary on that;

[b]Act 16:17 -
The same followed Paul[/b] ... - Why she did this, or under what presence, the sacred writer has not informed us. It may have been:
(1) That as she prophesied for gain, she supposed that Paul and Silas would reward her if she publicly proclaimed that they were the servants of God. Or,
(2) Because she was conscious that an evil spirit possessed her, and she feared that Paul and Silas would expel that spirit, and by proclaiming them to be the servants of God she hoped to conciliate their favor. Or,
(3) More probably it was because she saw evident tokens of their being sent from God, and that their doctrine would prevail; and by proclaiming this she hoped to acquire more authority, and a higher reputation for being herself inspired. Compare Mar_5:7.

Barnes

Quote:
I simply do not know how to handle it. Frankly, I am scared of her because of her charms...she can so easily rope you in and get you on her bandwagon. On the other hand Jesus died for me and to HIM I owe my salvation and allegience regardless of the circumstances.



Drawing off of the situation with Paul and the striking similarities there wouldn't go beyond measure and [i]use[/i] that as ipso facto, only as something to consider.

Appreciate your stark honesty here sister, what a conundrum to be dealing with... Much prayer! I will add my own sister. No need to fear her when you have the Lord and I think I understand what you mean by that... Maybe something that I have given to musing on of late, from;

Mar 9:17 And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
Mar 9:18 And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.

And

Mar 9:28 And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
Mar 9:29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

I think where a lot of this can get really confusing and maybe even off base is in the word "kind" as in "type" and where the whole range of 'generational spirits', 'the spirit of____", the naming of demonic entities, it's very much 'extra biblical' thinking at best and far off into the imagination at worst. Sorry, this may all be besides the point of any help to this situation and don't mean to be didactic...

To draw away from the "kind" as the object of concern and place the emphasis back on to us in the manner of prayer and fasting I think is where the Lord was putting the emphasis. Remember the other similar situation with Paul?

Act 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
Act 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
Act 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
Act 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

I feel like I am attempting to address two different things at the same time here and maybe the proscription is to know anything of how we should react in a given situation is only by the measure of how well we are in constant communion with the Lord and what better way to address everything we are incapable of in matters great and small than by prayer and as need be, fasting. That could open up a whole other can of worms so to speak, but am also recalling what is an 'acceptable' 'fast' to the Lord, our tendencies to automatically assume that means a fasting from eating which, while being true as well, is not the only type of fast (Isa 58:5). One that I am praying for deliverance and practicing or make that failing at, is a fasting from my own [i]opinion[/i]...

Speaking of ... All this might be quite contrary to your question, apologize for using this as opportunity to address related matters. I guess it just seems wrong to try and give any other particual 'advice' in how to deal with this other than to find the Lords thoughts for yourself by prayer as to what you need to say or not to say in the moment. The sentiment of;

Luk 12:11 Now whenever they bring you to the synagogues and rulers and authorities, do not worry about how or what you should answer, or what you should say.
Luk 12:12 For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you must say."

Always feel a little weary of trying to force something out of it's particual context, but to borrow the sentiment that we are not to worry (Loads of work still needed there) and by that would also derive that we need not work up presumptions or assumptions even with the present facts before us and be able to discern the Lords voice in any given situation and moment.

It may well be to just flat out rebuke her.


_________________
Mike Balog

[i]Here I found the benefit of a principle which I invariably adopt, of never pressing upon any human being my sentiments or wishes, without an absolute necessity. If a friend be reduced to the necessity of refusing or complying, he will feel grieved: but if, though with pain to himself, he do anything without being importuned, he has a sweet feeling of love excited by that very act; or, it he refrain from doing what you wish, he feels a love to you for not pressing him against his will.[/i] ~ Charles Simeon

 2005/12/31 11:57Profile





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