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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792



I am not aware of what a tautology is. You also say according to logic, it is pretty water-tight given the 'starting position.'

My question starting with Adam, based on Calvin's teaching of irresistible grace, did God want Adam to reject Him?

In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2004/1/7 11:24Profile

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK


Sorry, a tautology is 'saying the same thing twice'. It is a grammatical expression.

I was only making the point that if you start from Calvin's starting point in this sense is that some are 'unconditionally elected' many of the other points are really just logical deductions. 'saying the same thing in another way'.

If we are 'unconditionally elected' is makes refusal impossible and if refusal is impossible then grace is irresistable. Calvin would have called this last things 'effectual calling' rather than irresistable grace.

Whether or not Calvin believed that God wanted Adam to reject him is not really part of the 'irresistable grace' thing. It has to do with whether people are 'supralapsarians' or 'infralapsarians'. [Clutch, will explain it to you :-D or if you prefer there is a very simplified version at Infralapsarianism for Dummies.] The Dummies bit was a joke; it pretty complicated stuff. Calvin, apparently, was a Supralapsarian which means he did believe that God intended Adam to sin.

Ron Bailey

 2004/1/7 11:46Profile

Joined: 2003/11/10
Posts: 202
Oak Ridge, Tennessee


YES , Of course!
I will be glad to explain it to the Rookie.
1. Last week I could not even spell Infralapsarian. :-(
2. Today, I are one! :-D
Clutch :-P

Howard McNeill

 2004/1/8 0:29Profile

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