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 Re:

Karl,
I was just trying to say that sometimes people recieve the gift of tongues when their being filled with the spirit but if they do not continue to walk in the spirit they will still speak in tongues but may not have love.

 2005/12/28 21:26
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

I claim to have had a baptism of the Holy Ghost, but did not speak in tongues. I find that people often speak of the baptism of the Holy Ghost and tongues as the same thing. This is more that a little frustrating. I have thus become a believer in the baptism of the Holy Ghost, but undecided on all the doctines of tongues. Why should I claim to be an expert on tongues if I have never spoken in tongues, and feel lead of the Lord to "covet earnestly the best gifts."

So I'm not for or against the tongues movement, but find it odd many of the stands of the two sides of the argument, especially since many men that were used of God claimed a baptism of the Holy Ghost, but never spoke in tongues (Chapman, Roberts, Moody, Torrey, Rice, etc). Even Wigglesworth had the baptism of the Holy Ghost prior to speaking in tongues. I can cite his testimony if anyone wishes, but would rather post someone who claimed the baptism of the Holy Ghost who never spoke in tongues. I don't line up with John Rice on everything he says, but I agreee with his spirit.

"I was in big services in Toronto, in the Avenue Road Church. There was a great crowd. Some seventeen hundred packed the building to the door, with chairs in the aisles. When I preached we had, I think, fifteen adults saved, and these went with many tears to a room for further instruction. As I stepped out of the pulpit for a moment while the building filled up again with a good many others for a second service, a man came up to me and said, "Dr. Rice, have you been baptized with the Holy Ghost?"

"Well," I said, "if you mean an enduement of power from on High, yes. In my poor, unworthy way, I thank God I have prayed and God has given some power, with amazing results, to win souls. I don't claim any credit. I have to say that is the power of God."

"Oh," he said, "I didn't mean that. I mean did you talk in tongues?"

I said, "If you didn't mean that, what did you say that for?"

"But," he said, "Brother Rice, if you talk ... if you just turn loose and you don't know what you are saying but you just feel good and as light as a feather ... it is so wonderful!"

I said, "I talked in the English tongue tonight. It seemed like everybody could understand me."

"Yes," he said, "I know, but you don't know how much joy you would get if you would just cut loose and talk in tongues."

I said, "Well, if enough people come down the aisle and take Christ as Saviour and claim Christ and set out to live for Him, that will be joy enough for me." I said, "Now, let me ask you a question. Did you ever win a soul?"

"Well, I have witnessed to them."

"I know, but did you ever win a soul?"

"Well, I have prayed for them, all right."

I said, "Quit dodging. Did you ever take your Bible and show somebody he is a sinner, show him how to trust Jesus and get him to ask God for forgiveness and claim it and set out to live for Him? Have you ever won a soul?"

He said, "I guess I never did."

Now, isn't that strange that he would think he was a better Christian than I? He had never won one soul to Christ and God knows I have not won as many as I ought to and not nearly as many as some others, but I have seen thousands of people come to Christ. Oh, how many! I mean drunkards and infidels and heathen of various kinds. Isn't that a strange, arrogant spirit that is not of God when somebody thinks of himself more highly than he ought to think because he talks in tongues? That means those people think Gipsy Smith and R. A. Torrey and Charles G. Finney and Dr. Bob Jones, Sr. and Billy Sunday, the great soul winners, were not as good Christians as they are, who talk in tongues. That is a silly and, I think, a sinful attitude. That is one great thing wrong with the tongues movement."


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2005/12/29 20:55Profile









 Re: tongues is good

Regarding tongues, we are like children when we receive toys at Christmas. The toys represents God's gifts to us, we dance and sing, but we don't know what to do with them. So it is with those who receive the gift of tongues or the speaking in an unknown tongue.

I speak in tongues, but I can tell you that it doesn't bring great joy or the feeling of goose bumps or anything like that. I know that when I pray I speak in tongues for the edification of my spirit and I feel revived in my spirit that all is well.

Other times I may speak in tongues and everything is not well. When the plane flew into the trade towers, hours before they happened I was compelled to get alone with God and I found refuge in a mens room stall and I cried aloud in tongues, weeping, and I had no idea what I was praying for, until that terrible hour.

The speaking in tongues is used for intercessory as well, and I don't knock it, it's a language of the holy Spirit coupled with your born again spirit He cries out to God.

I wish I could speak in that language all day, it sure is good.

Oh I feel the LORD right now, and I thank God for this thread, Praise the LORD.

Karl

 2005/12/29 23:20
PaulWiglaf
Member



Joined: 2005/8/31
Posts: 61
Hartselle, Alabama

 Re:

goldeneye:

From my own studies of ancient history, the Jews were subjects to Rome. Therefore, they had to know Greek (interestingly enough, Greek was the common language, not Latin). See, you first have the Greeks under Alexander the Great introducing Hellenist culture, including the Greek language. The Romans came in and put their own spin on the Hellenist culture (i.e. change the names of the gods from Greek to Latin); well, this includes the speck of sand called Judea.

So, they had to know Greek/Latin (a poor form of it, mind you) to get anywhere in society. How could a person acknowledge the call of a centurion if you can't understand his language? For, the common soldiers of Rome wouldn't have the time to bother with acquiring new languages; it's easier to force your subject to pick up yours. So, the tongues spoken of in scripture doesn't [i]have[/i] to be a rudimentary knowledge of a known language.

Indeed, the NT is not a masterpeice of Greek sophistry, but the basic ability of nominal students in the greek language; if one wants to read beautiful Greek he'd pick up Plato or Socrates before Paul or Peter--yet, if he wants the depth that comes only from a pen inspired by the Divine One, he must read the writings of the Pharisee and the fisherman.

I hope this is helpful.

In Christ,
Benjamin

 2005/12/29 23:21Profile
PaulWiglaf
Member



Joined: 2005/8/31
Posts: 61
Hartselle, Alabama

 Re:

Karl:

I agree with you; this thread makes me want to go digging through all my old pentecostal magazines, since there are numerous accounts of where a man or woman was praying in an unknown language and a person next to them starts to weep since they understand it. God can use the oddest things by the unlikeliest people to perform great wonders. I'd like to see a oceanologist's thoughts if he was able to view the miracle of the water apprearing in the desert in the times of Elisha, which God called a "light thing" in His eyes. Or, a mortician's prognosis of the dead resurrecting during Christ's crucifixion?

The speaking of tongues isn't the only gift above our understanding; the full immensity and intensity of Christ's sacrifice evades me.

In Christ,
Benjamin

 2005/12/29 23:33Profile
JesusIsLife
Member



Joined: 2005/11/18
Posts: 17
USA

 Re:

When I received my baptism in the Holy Spirit, I didn't pray in tongues right away, but 2 nights later I was in prayer at my house and it felt as if my heart was seized by God and I began to speak in a different language, almost sounding like and arabic language at first and then even like a southeastern Asian language, like chinese or vietnamese or something.

I believe that praying in tongues is edifying to the individual believer and that also it is praying the perfect will of God. The very fact that we do not know what we are saying helps us to learn to respond to the Holy Spirit without mixing in our own ideas and wishes, for we speak as the Holy Spirit gives utterance. I belive that speaking in tongues is the initial physical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Every single account in the book of Acts that has to do with the baptism in the Spirit is accompanied with speaking in tongues and prophesying. The truth is that one of the gifts of Christ to every single believer is the baptism in the Spirit.

Once we are born agian Christians, we are meant to be filled with the Holy Ghost and a baptism in which the Spirit enables to speak in a prayer language we've never heard ourselves speak. The Body of Christ is meant to fully operate in the gifts of the Holy Spirit and one of them is speaking in tongues, no matter much argument there is out there, it's right there in the middle of my Bible.

**I remember when I first heard of the baptism in the Spirit and I had a lot of questions and doubts, but I also, in my heart said to the Lord, that "if there truly is a baptism in the Spirit as the book of Acts portrays it, I MUST HAVE IT!!" You know what I'm sayin? It is something that each person must seek for themself, tongues should never be forbade by the true believer, whether he or she speaks in tongues or not, because the Scriptures declare their authenticity.

Look at Mark 16:17, "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My Name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;" I mean, that's pretty obvious that Jesus taught that tongues would be a part of the Christian's life. And by the way, Charles G. Finney was very powerfully baptized in the Holy Spirit and did speak in tongues, as for the others I do not know


_________________
Aaron

 2005/12/30 10:15Profile
CyberCarbon
Member



Joined: 2005/12/16
Posts: 122


 Re:

Speaking in tongues are one of many gifts God can use to reach the lost. It is not a badge, a reward, or a prerequisite to be saved. One of the problems is some churches that came out of the Azusa Street Revival got the idea because tongues were manifested at Azusa Street all believers have to have that gift. NOT TRUE


_________________
David Michael Paul

 2006/1/2 1:23Profile
Sir_Edward
Member



Joined: 2005/10/19
Posts: 124
Michigan

 Re:

Carbon,
Glad you said some -- not all shared this belief.

Those who believe this would include United Pentecostals and the Apostolic Movements.

Those that do not -- Assemblies of God and Church of God (Clevland, Tenn)

Probably many others on both sides but these are the big ones.

This has been a historical problem that has indeed caused a lot of problems. Salvation really has nothing to do with tongues.

Blessings.


_________________
Ed Raby

 2006/1/2 11:29Profile









 Re: Swords

Sir Edward wrote:

Quote:
This has been a historical problem that has indeed caused a lot of problems. Salvation really has nothing to do with tongues.



But it is apart of salvation. Just as the word of knowledge, word of wisdom, working of miracles, helps etc..

If you were in darkness about a certain thing in your christian walk, and the gift of tongues comes upon a person and he or someone else interprets, and the message is for you giving you a word of knowledge so that you can see the light, would you not be SAVED from your perdicament?

Is salvation not daily?

When I sin and I bring my confession to the Father and He forgives me and begins to cleanse me from all unrighteousness, did He not SAVE me?

There is the general salvation that comes upon all whom the Father receives into the body, but specifically speaking I am SAVED when I forgive my brother whom I've hated.

And if tongues is a method whom God chooses to use to get His message across than I welcome it even though amongst those who reject tongues as troublesome and full of problems it's still a form of communication that God uses.

I have found in my Christian rearing in the holy Ghost that when I say in my heart that God doesn't do this or that anymore, guess what? 100% of the time God uses the very medium that I am rejecting as false and untrue. And I find myself kicking against the pricks.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

The very WORD of God brings a sword against our understanding of how we think God operates and does things.

Isaiah 43:19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.

God has done a new thing, and when it came the NEW was coming (Law of the Spirit of Life) and the old was going out (Law of Sin and death).

And this new life in us is a process that takes time and we are killed all the day long, because he who loses his life shall find it.

LS



 2006/1/2 15:06
groh_frog
Member



Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re:

Quote:

Loveslave wrote:

Is salvation not daily?




You lost me here.

Grace and Peace...

 2006/1/2 15:26Profile





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