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hijode1dios
Member



Joined: 2004/3/15
Posts: 27
Waco, GA

 Re: "philosophy and vain deceit"

InTheLight wrote:

Quote:

...The problem is that they never start with historical evidence but instead they start with presuppositions and therefore they're not dealing with history, they're dealing with philosophy.

Ron



Well, I guess you can say that again! You are right on target there.

1 Timothy 6:20 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:"

Colossians 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."


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Vicky Hunt

 2004/3/16 22:32Profile
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re:

That ancient Jewish scholars would translate "alma" into "parthenos" a long time before Christ was born tells me that we don't completely understand the total implied meanings of alma. It is obvious to me that the translaters of the septuagint believed that, in certain contexts, alma was to mean virgin.

Hulsey


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2004/3/17 0:20Profile
Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

From the footnote on Isaiah 7:14 from the [url=http://www.netbible.com]NET Bible[/url]:

Quote:
Traditionally, “virgin.” Because this verse from Isaiah is quoted in Matt 1:23 in connection with Jesus’ birth, the Isaiah passage has been regarded since the earliest Christian times as a prophecy of Christ’s virgin birth. Much debate has taken place over the best way to translate this Hebrew term, although ultimately one’s view of the doctrine of the virgin birth of Christ is unaffected. Though the Hebrew word used here, hm*l=u^ (u^lm*h), can sometimes refer to a woman who is a virgin (Gen 24:43), it does not carry this meaning inherently. The word is simply the feminine form of the corresponding masculine noun


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Sam

 2004/3/17 10:43Profile
Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

From the footnote on Isaiah 7:14 from the [url=http://www.netbible.com]NET Bible[/url]:

Quote:
Traditionally, “virgin.” Because this verse from Isaiah is quoted in Matt 1:23 in connection with Jesus’ birth, the Isaiah passage has been regarded since the earliest Christian times as a prophecy of Christ’s virgin birth. Much debate has taken place over the best way to translate this Hebrew term, although ultimately one’s view of the doctrine of the virgin birth of Christ is unaffected. Though the Hebrew word used here, hm*l=u^ (u^lm*h), can sometimes refer to a woman who is a virgin (Gen 24:43), it does not carry this meaning inherently. The word is simply the feminine form of the corresponding masculine noun


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Sam

 2004/3/17 11:18Profile
Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

From the footnote on Isaiah 7:14 from the [url=http://www.netbible.com]NET Bible[/url]:

Quote:
Traditionally, “virgin.” Because this verse from Isaiah is quoted in Matt 1:23 in connection with Jesus’ birth, the Isaiah passage has been regarded since the earliest Christian times as a prophecy of Christ’s virgin birth. Much debate has taken place over the best way to translate this Hebrew term, although ultimately one’s view of the doctrine of the virgin birth of Christ is unaffected. Though the Hebrew word used here, hm*l=u^ (u^lm*h), can sometimes refer to a woman who is a virgin (Gen 24:43), it does not carry this meaning inherently. The word is simply the feminine form of the corresponding masculine noun, “young man”; cf. 1 Sam 17:56; 20:22). The Aramaic and Ugaritic cognate terms are both used of women who are not virgins. The word seems to pertain to age, not sexual experience, and would normally be translated “young woman.” The LXX translator(s) who later translated the Book of Isaiah into Greek sometime between the second and first century b.c., however, rendered the Hebrew term by the more specific Greek word parqevno" (parqenos), which does mean “virgin” in a technical sense. This is the Greek term that also appears in the citation of Isa 7:14 in Matt 1:23. Therefore, regardless of the meaning of the term in the OT context, in the NT Matthew’s usage of the Greek term parqevno" (parqenos) clearly indicates that from his perspective a virgin birth has taken place.

The NET Bible is the product of a team of conservative scholars. I am sorry the Greek and Hebrew fonts did not come out right after copying and pasting.

I want to point out a few things:

1) Even conservative scholars currently hold different views regarding the translation of "alma" in Isaiah 7:14. The issue is not that they do not believe in the virgin birth; contrarily, they all agree to the virgin birth of Jesus. For some, the issue is simply exegetical--they believe the word in its [i]original OT context[/i] simply refers to "young woman".

2) To these scholars, their concern is primarily on the meaning of the word in its [i]original OT context,[/i] i.e. what the original author intended to convey. However, they do recognise that the translators of the Septuagint where the citation in Matthew comes from, rendered its translation into a Greek term with a narrower sense, "virgin".


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Sam

 2004/3/17 11:21Profile





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