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lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
Stever's response:It is my understanding that "the wrath to come" refers to the time of the Tribulation. It also refers to hell. We all know that we will go through tribulation on this earth- we all go through it every day. But the word here is WRATH- WHICH IS GOD'S DIVINE JUDGMENT AGAINST SIN--against a sinless world who rejects Him. I do not qualify to receive God's wrath during the Great Tribulation and neither do other believers in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.



I think that verse 9-10 is clear on what the Wrath that is coming is-----it is the opposite of salvation. If we are to believe that there will be people saved up until the 2nd coming of Jesus in Glory and judgment, then we have to acknowledge that I Thess. 5:9-10 applies to them as well. It was CHRIST'S blood that bought this for them. The timing of their salvation is irrelevant because the Lord ALREADY knows who are His, even if they are not yet following Him. The reason they are not yet following Jesus is because The Father has not yet given them eyes to see and drawn them to His Son Jesus. There is no evidence that God punishes those who will be His because HE has not yet given them eyes to see their sin and need for a Saviour.

Quote:
Those that are alive, and presently, in this day and age, beleive in Christ as their Lord and Savior, will also be part of this rapture event.



I think it's significant that the words "we which are alive and remain(survive, 4035, strong's), shall NOT precede them which are asleep".

The pre-trib doctrine has 'live saints' being transformed before the dead in Christ are resurrected. It is a problem reconciling that teaching to the Word of God. Blessings in Jesus, Cindy


_________________
Cindy

 2005/12/28 10:19Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
The Wrath of God is end times stuff, explained throughout Revelation that has nothing to do with the saved, only the Christ rejecting lost. When they are finally down on their backs, they will finally look up. During this time many of them will be saved. I/you/us do not require the New Birth, we already have it.



Again, I fully disagree with you. The "wrath" of God(I Thess. 5:9-10) as taught by the pre-trib camp is not for ANY who are walking in their salvation or will come(future tense) to salvation through the blood of Christ. You're correct in using the term birth, but you are only applying it to those who have already come "out of the womb"...........see the ones who are still "in the womb" are just as important to God and they will be "born" in their due time (Isa 49:14-16). They are not punished because they were not "born" soon enough. They too are "graven" upon the palms of His hands. Blessings in Him, Cindy


_________________
Cindy

 2005/12/28 10:41Profile









 Re:

Lastblast quoted:
"The thing is that the pre-trib camp teaches the opposite of what the church has consistantly taught for the first 1800 years of it's "birth"----they teach that the Church WILL be spared from the persecution by anti-christ.

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Stever said: The reason that the book of Revelation was allegorized and symbolized by the early Church was because of the fear of the Romans (the One World Government of the time) and tremendous persecution they were all already experiencing. The Book of Revelation reveals God's plan of placing ALL of the Governments of the World at His feet at a future time in history.Can you imagine how they would react? Even today, why do you think that Christianity is suppressed in all of the totalarian Governments aroung the world?

I also think that the Catholic Church has had a lot to do with allegorizing and supressing the Book of Revelation. The Pope took over as World leader after Rome fell from within. All of the Catholics that I know today will have nothing to do with the study of this book (Revelation).

God bless,

Stever

 2005/12/30 9:53
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
Stever said: The reason that the book of Revelation was allegorized and symbolized by the early Church was because of the fear of the Romans (the One World Government of the time) and tremendous persecution they were all already experiencing. The Book of Revelation reveals God's plan of placing ALL of the Governments of the World at His feet at a future time in history.Can you imagine how they would react? Even today, why do you think that Christianity is suppressed in all of the totalarian Governments aroung the world?



Stever, I don't understand how any of the above has to do with why the pre-trib rapture of the church wasn't taught until the 1800's in the church. In Him, cindy


_________________
Cindy

 2005/12/30 10:49Profile





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