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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : War? Is it biblical to New Testimate Christians? Is it something Christ is calling us too?

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Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: Which kingdom do we belong to?

Quote:
The early Christians did not take up arms and fight for Rome. They were severely persecuted as a result. When Constantine "christianized"



The early Christians were not passifist. Even in the gospels, when they came to arrest the Lord, Peter took his "SWORD" and cut off the centurians ear. The Lord restored the man's ear. But the fact is Peter carried a sword.

If a man breaks into my house and threatens my wife and family, as a believer do I defend my wife and family? Or do I passivly stand aside and let him have his way?

If a Hitler rises up to devour the nations, do we sit by and do nothing? Or do was take up arms to defend our liberties and freedom?

We have to walk with the Lord on this. The Nations bear the Sword.

But we do not fight for the kingdom of God with weapons of the flesh.

But if called to the armed forces, we fight for our nation, our families, and even for the liberation of others who are held under an iron fist.

The Lord Himself used the nations to juged Isreal and then used the other nations to judge them. The Old Testament is where we have the Law, "Thou shalt not commit murder", but the Old Testament is also the place where Isreal was called to fight on not more than one occasion.

Is their a place for concientious objectors? Perhaps. But it is not a rule. We must follow the flow of the Lord's Life within us.

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/7 17:13Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: A very important scripture which should be prayerfully considered

Romans 13:1-7

1 Let every person be subject to the authorities over him, for there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are ordained by God.

2 So then he who resists the authority opposes God's ordination, and those who oppose will recieve the judgement to themselves.

3 For the rulers are not a terror to good work, but to the evil. Do you want to have no fear of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from him;

4 For he is a servant of God to you for good, But if you do what is evil, fear; he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is a servant of God, an avenger for wrath to him who practices evil.

5 Therefore it is necessary to be subject, not only because of wrath but also because of conscience.

6 For because of these things you also pay taxes; for they are God's officers, attending constantly to this very thing.

7 Render to all the things due: tax to whom tax is due, custom to whom custom is due, fear to whom fear is due, honor to whom honor is due."

These verses spell out our relationship to the state and it's function. It bears the Sword and that by God's ordination. The State bears the sword to maintain order and to deal with evil. And that would include terrorist, etc.

If we work for the State and are called to bear the sword, it is by God's ordination. God has appointed the sword for the state and if we take it as a representative of the state we are according to God's ordination.

But if we take the sword as the church for the Kingdom of God, we are out of line. His Kingdom is not of this world.

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/10 14:31Profile









 Re: War? Is it biblical to New Testimate Christians? Is it something Christ is callin

Hi Guys
I am a spiritual pacifist. That means I consider myself to be a priest in a royal priesthood and therefore I would never dream of blowing anyones brains out. Now, secular pacifists might be the most ridiculous people on the planet. Nations must defend themselves, WW11 being a good example, WW1 being a very bad one. I think the problem lies in how we identify ourselves. I hear the personal pronoun used a lot in the replies that "we, have to defend ourselves as a country. Who is "we?" By happenstance I am a citezen of this country, by birth I am a citizen of a country yet to come. Imgaine the nonsensical notion that one born-ahain Christian in Germany would blow the brains out of a Born-again brother from America. Govenrnment was established by God to hold back the forces of chaos, this does not mean that it is a godly institution just because he established it. God makes the rain to fall on the briar and the thistles, therefore making these weeds grow, but they are weeds. God can make one vessel for honor, another for dishonor, who is the the clay to speak against the potter?

There is not a shred of evidence to suggest that that early Christians took up arms and fought to the death to try and save Israel from the Roman destruction of 67-70ad. Now, if ever there would have been justifiable participation, would not that be it? Can you imigaine the reaction if America was invaded and Christians proclaimed that they would not fight for their country, the hatred would be extreme. Poor Jerrimiah had a task just like this. There will come a time soon that "all nations," of the world will come against Jerusalem, and since all means all, that includes America. Will Christians who believe in taking up arms boldly go of and fight against Israel? The common questions about Nazi-ism comes up all the time. The bottom line is that countries have been fighting each other since and before Jesus and they will all the way up to the end. The secular world will fight to protect themsleves, have no doubt about that, but what has that to do with Christianity? Are you reaaly an American first and a Christian second, can you really serve two masters? Do you have any New Testement scriptures to support the killing of your enemies. To quote the OT is not acceptable unless you believe that todays kings and presidents who go to war have direct instructions from God, as did the Israelites. I have yet to hear any leader claim that God spoke to them directly and gave them precise instructions. Men fight and die for power and money , have alway and will always right up to the time Jesus comes back, let us not be part of the world system but Gods. As for Peter using the sword, what did that Peter do when Jesus told him to put down the sword? He fled in fear and distress, oh yes Peter was more than willing to fight and die for a conquering hero, but not for a suffering servant. Hundreds of thousands, millions of men have died down through the centuries for King and country, a very small number of men and woman have died to themselves and embraced suffering and persecution. God's Kingdom is not of this world, but it is amongst us. Our weapons of warfare are love and peace, you see, we as the light of the world, break the chain of darkness, of violence, of hatred, because this is exactly what Jesus did. He did not call down fire on the greatest criminals of all time, those who killed the Son of God(you and me) he said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." This is our role as light bearers. Many will be called to this, but few will find that narrow path..........Frank

 2006/1/17 17:10
DrewIrwin
Member



Joined: 2005/4/23
Posts: 12
USA, CHINA, BURMA

 Re:

Excellent responce Appolus! I Agree that our war is not against Flesh and Blood.
General Booth got it write when he started his wars, in the boldness of a lion, with "Fire & Blood". Now that is Faith. Not ignorance nor Stupidity

May Grace and Peace Be with You


_________________
Drew Irwin

 2006/2/2 13:03Profile
DrewIrwin
Member



Joined: 2005/4/23
Posts: 12
USA, CHINA, BURMA

 Re:

Can someone honestly explain to me how killing your enemy is loving your enemy. If someone can elaborate on this, please do.


_________________
Drew Irwin

 2006/2/9 14:45Profile





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