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 Why Revival Tarries (book reading) CHAPTER THREE

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[i]Note: if you want to join in these discussions you should obtain a copy of "why revival tarries" infromation in where to obtain this book is on this thread. [/i]

[b]CHAPTER THREE[/b]

Read the third chapter of the book and then prayerfully meditate on these questions and respond as you feel led.

7. How many people do you know that are "so heavenly that they are of no earthly good," and how many who are "so earthly they are of no heavenly good"? Based on your experience, which represents real trouble for the Church?

8. What are the problems with the idea of being content with having been saved and sanctified?

9. Are you willing to endure life-altering agony and suffering to recieve God's vision and passion?


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/12/21 15:06Profile
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 Re: Why Revival Tarries (book reading) CHAPTER THREE

[b]How many people do you know that are "so heavenly [i]minded[/i] that they are of no earthly good," and how many who are "so earthly [i]minded[/i] they are of no earthly good"? Based on your experience, which represents real trouble for the Church?[/b]
I have to start my answer with what was said toward the end of chapter three, "Unless we are desperate to get into real victory, we are so easy on ourselves and so hard on others! Self loves self... But too often we hide ourselves from ourselves lest the sight of ourselves should sicken ourselves. Let us invite the searching eye of God to locate this corrupted, spotted, stinking self in us." So I'm going to honestly say I don't like this question. I don't want to sit here and waste my time talking about how many people I think are this or that. How does focusing on others' short comings change me? It just feeds the flesh. And that's what we're talking about here, a life lived in the Spirit vs. a life lived in the flesh. What will benefit the Church and make her effective while she's still here on earth is to live in the Spirit and not waste the gifts He has given or wants to give each one of us.

[b]What are the problems with the idea of being content with having been saved and sanctified?[/b]
Just this morning as our church staff was gathered for morning prayer, we got in a talk about the salvation of our unsaved family members, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. During this conversation, Pastor Richard was telling a story about Alan Redpath being on a train, and while he heard the rhythmic sound of the wheels moving along the tracks, the words, "Saved soul, wasted life. Saved soul, wasted life..." played along with the rhythym of the moving train. That's the first thing I thought of when I read this question. I don't want to be a saved soul, wasted life. I want all God has for me, and obtaining that means making a bunch of right, little decisions. What a difference it makes taking the time out each morning to read the Word. How we are drawn more and more to the heart of God when we interceede in prayer on behalf of others! What joy lasts throughout the day when the first thought we think when we wake in the morning is, "Good morning Lord! Thank You for a brand new day! Help me to know how to walk in it."

[b]Are you willing to endure life-altering agony and suffering to recieve God's vision and passion?[/b]
Pain has never been anything I've liked. In fact, I've been mad at God before for the pain and trials He allowed me to go through. I always prayed that He'd spare me from pain... but that was the wrong prayer to pray. And you know, last night, I would honestly have to say, was the first time I could thank God for the life-altering agony and suffering He allowed me to go through. It all became clear! I saw the purpose in it all, and was thankful for who it has made me today. I'm still scared of being hurt and broken, but at least now I know that God knows what He's doing and there will be a greater good produced on the other side.


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Yolanda Fields

 2005/12/22 14:18Profile
dougkristen
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 Re: Why Revival Tarries (book reading) CHAPTER THREE

First before I answer my questions I must comment that this chapter was very challenging to read. In order to complete I have to be honest with myself before God. About an hour ago my wife forwarded me an email from someone whose husband goes out every morning in the woods to pray one hour a day in winter cold weather, even if its 15 degrees or so. If someone is interested in this, I can email it privately about this testimony.

But what is said to me is that I lack in personal discipline to pray to this degree and overcome my discomforts to pray to this degree of commitment. I can’t just read this nice book and complete these questions without action and change. This is why I am studying this book.  I need God’s VISION and PASSION! Please help me God… Amen!

[b]7. How many people do you know that are "so heavenly that they are of no earthly good," and how many who are "so earthly they are of no earthly good"? Based on your experience, which represents real trouble for the Church?[/b]

I only know of a few people who are so heavenly minded that they are of no earthly good, unfortunately they are all dead; Jim Elliot, Keith Green, Leonard Ravenhill, and many more spiritual men of God who are no longer on this earth. I know of a few living people who are so consumed with heaven, Ray Comfort, Keith Daniels, and some teachers at a local Bible College in Rochester, but not too many.. It is hard to think of any that I am attracted to by their “heavenly” passion and vision for God! Most preachers, teachers, spiritual leaders or Christians are striving to appear spiritually busy doing the business of God vs. just waiting on God and praying… the key is vision… Spiritual Christian leaders and people do not have a vision of sin, hell, the judgments of God and righteousness and holiness. We look to the standards of the world on how to build church, build a business vs. follow the ways of God.

I know of a pastor who invites famous people to his church to attract visitors to come to his church. It has grown from about 20 to 500 people in just a few years… Is this the move of God or just??? Outwardly his church is big and prosperous and is on its way to a mega church… but is this really of God? Jesus through prayer raised up just 12 men who went out to reach the lost and evangelize the world. This was God’s plan at this time… What is God’s vision and plan for us today?

Based on my experience as a Christian for the past 21 years, not much has changed… most Christian music is shallow and hollow… It’s difficult to find any real spiritual meat in preaching anymore. Keith Green’s music is the most spiritually deep music I own, the rest is mostly fluff and appeals to the flesh.

Men that look to the earthly way of doing spiritual tasks will result in death for millions because they don’t have the visions of God; they only have the ideas of successful men on earth, doing things their way and not God’s way. We need to return to the Word of God and prayer.


[b]8. What are the problems with the idea of being content with having been saved and sanctified?[/b]

This is selfish. I know because this was me for the past 20 years as a Christian. I was on my way to heaven and I had my ticket! Yahoo… too bad for the rest of the world… You must not be elect to be saved… That was my attitude. The Calvinistic theology in me was looking down on others. I was being discipled and learning to be a Christian but I had no vision for the BILLIONS of people lost in the world nor in my back yard. I still need a clearer vision of this.

The problems is we forget the purposes of God is to be the church, to be salt and light and to go to the world.

The Evangelism section in most Christian book stores are extremely small. They are hard to find.. They usually have about 3-5 books. But most other sections in Christian books stores are large. Why? Because God wants us to WAKE UP and GO and PREACH and be the light of the world… we can’t do that at home or in the four walls of church.

[b]9. Are you willing to endure life-altering agony and suffering to receive God's vision and passion?[/b]

The timing of the email that my wife sent me and this question seem to be God’s inspired. Am I willing to spend one hour a day in the freezing cold to pray to God and seek His face to get what I need, the vision of God’s holiness and the passion to hear the voice of God and to do what He says? I am eager to see the movie of Jim Elliot’s life (The End of the Spear). These men had a vision of hell and reaching this savage tribe for God in spite of knowing they could die.

I believe I am willing to endure life-altering agony and suffering to know God’s vision and passion for Him and the lost, I just don’t know what it will look like… I pray that God would give me the courage to walk this out.


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a Jesus freak

 2005/12/22 15:51Profile
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 Re: Why Revival Tarries (book reading) CHAPTER THREE

Quote:
7. How many people do you know that are "so heavenly that they are of no earthly good," and how many who are "so earthly they are of no earthly good"? Based on your experience, which represents real trouble for the Church?


Based on my expereince I have met very few maybe none at all --even myself that are so heavenly minded they are no earthly good. On the flip side, there seems ot be an overabundance of people so earthly minded that they are no heavently good. The real trouble in the church is that we love the world too much and Christ too little. There reason I can say this is as a pastor I see it all the time in how people respond to physical things as opposed to spiritual things. Example: Recently I called the church to a time of fasting and prayer which will start on Jan 1st to Jan 21st. I made up an information sheet. As of today only 6 out of twenty have been taken. In a couple weeks I will place information on the upcoming business meeting -- I will bet that in the first week there will be almost all of them left and I will still have the flyers for the fast on the table in overabundance. Call a prayer meeting -- the few people that pray show up, call a finacial meeting -- everyone but the people that pray show up. ;-) Spiritual things prayer, fasting and bible Studies take a back seat to money, maintenence and membership.

Quote:
8. What are the problems with the idea of being content with having been saved and sanctified?


How can one be content if one is saved and sanctified? I simply do not see it as being possiblein the Bible. There is no way to be content when you have the cure for humanity in the gospel. Nor can someone be sanctified and not moan and weep over the sin of the world.

Quote:
9. Are you willing to endure life-altering agony and suffering to recieve God's vision and passion?



Not yet but I am praying for it. I will be honest. This is exactly the issue I am dealing with -- counting the cost of what I want to ask for. I understand all too well what the cost will be and what is expected. I pray that God will make me ready and willing ot do what needs to be done and change what needs to be changed.

Blessings.


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Ed Raby

 2005/12/22 22:12Profile
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 Re:

7. How many people do you know that are "so heavenly that they are of no earthly good," and how many who are "so earthly they are of no heavenly good"? Based on your experience, which represents real trouble for the Church?

"But we are so subnormal these days that the normal New Testament experience seems abnormal." I believe the more we start to seek after this true apostolic christianity people will mock and jeer and guess who will be the first? "the church". People will warn us not to be spiritual, what a lie from the devil how can you be too spiritual. We are born again and are dead to this world. Oh God open our eyes.

8. What are the problems with the idea of being content with having been saved and sanctified?

"synthetic religion must go." We have to start to realize that Christian requires all God tells us to not just give our life but lose it. The story of "clarlie peace" really saddens me this is one main reason we can't be satisified with our sythetic "been saved" yet not living for God daily. "the madhouse of the universe.. HELL" let us live with that reality that hell exists and people need to know and obey God. "No Exits In Hell!"

9. Are you willing to endure life-altering agony and suffering to recieve God's vision and passion?

"lay your burdens on the Lord, but who does He lay his burdens on?"


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/12/23 19:07Profile
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 Re: Why Revival Tarries (book reading) CHAPTER THREE

7. How many people do you know that are "so heavenly that they are of no earthly good," and how many who are "so earthly they are of no heavenly good"? Based on your experience, which represents real trouble for the Church?

Few and possibly none to the first. And the opposite is true of the second. The second represents trouble for most people in the church building, the first is the church.

8. What are the problems with the idea of being content with having been saved and sanctified?

If you're content with these only, you probably aren't either.

9. Are you willing to endure life-altering agony and suffering to recieve God's vision and passion?

Yes, but I whine once I get it. Some see me as a conqueror for Christ, but I am more often the coward. I just hope that God sees fit to crush my resistance, or that I get spiritually mature enough to stop murmuring and hiding once I get what I ask Him for.


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Hal Bachman

 2005/12/23 20:38Profile









 Re: Why Revival Tarries (book reading) CHAPTER THREE

7. How many people do you know that are "so heavenly that they are of no earthly good," and how many who are "so earthly they are of no earthly good"? Based on your experience, which represents real trouble for the Church?

Can a Christian that is heavenly minded and being used of God in the lives of men be titled as no earthly good? Certainly not from God’s perspective. Perhaps, from man’s. The heavenly minded men and women I know are not sitting in rocking chairs twiddling their thumbs and just waiting for summons above. They are serving God whether through the ministry of the Word or intercessory prayer because they do have a vision of heaven (and hell!) and realize the time is short. Men like Keith Daniel, Gerhard DuToit, Ralph Sutera, Lou Sutera would be just such men that I have met and spent time with.
Alas, there are many (and far too often I fall in this category also) that are caught up with earthly matters that we are of no heavenly use and sometimes our earthly use could be called into question!
Which represents trouble in the church? I think the subtlest danger to the church is being caught up with earthly matters and losing the vision and passion God has given us. Once this happens we become totally useless to God and totally threatenless to satan!


8. What are the problems with the idea of being content with having been saved and sanctified?

The first thing that comes to mind is how totally selfish it is! We are created for God’s glory! Let us strive to be all that He wants and created us to be. It is a hard path for our flesh to go on, “…he has had Jacob-like wrestlings with God and has come out stripped, but also “strengthened by the Holy Ghost!”-LR
“A vision of holiness. Oh, beloved! How this generation of believers needs the vision of God in all His holiness!” –LR. If we really knew God we would set this world ablaze (paraphrased from Interview with Leonard Ravenhill). To be content and not press on robs us of the blessing of going deep with God. Without vision and passion the ultimate result will be deadness.


9. Are you willing to endure life-altering agony and suffering to receive God's vision and passion?

“If you only want to be saved, sanctified, and satisfied, then the Lord’s battle hath no need of thee.”- LR. “We had better be at peace with Him here, and be in the center of His will now!” –LR. My willingness is shown in my daily life. I may say in words, “Yes, I’m willing for whatever it takes to receive and maintain through prayer God’s vision and passion.” But my daily actions reveal the true desire of my heart. It is shown in how I start my day and if I do wait on my knees before a holy, awesome God. My desperateness is revealed in how I deal with sin that God shows to me. It takes determined persistence to pull that ugly, spotted self out of the closet and hand it over to God. ‘God, help me to look upward, inward and outward! Search me, Oh God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me into the way everlasting!”

 2005/12/23 20:59
roadsign
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 Heavenly minded? What's that?

How many people do you know that are "so heavenly that they are of no earthly good,"

It think that this quote gets misunderstood when "heavenly-minded" is interepred to mean: absorbed in the church, religoius activity, praise and worship, etc. Then I'd have to say, yes, they are no earthly good. Their religious activity has take priority over the needs of others - their "neighbors", including their relationship with God.

If someone was truly "heavenly minded" they would be a lot of good here on this earth, though not the way the world would wish. The world would regard them as scum.

So this quote can mean a lot of different things, depending on people's life views.
Diane


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Diane

 2005/12/23 22:07Profile





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