SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Authentic Biblical Christianity.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : General Topics : WHAT EXACTLY DOES MATT 11:12 MEAN!!

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )
PosterThread
AARON619
Member



Joined: 2005/11/22
Posts: 22


 WHAT EXACTLY DOES MATT 11:12 MEAN!!

I HAVE NO CLUE

 2005/12/12 2:53Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: WHAT EXACTLY DOES MATT 11:12 MEAN!!

The classic interpretation is this one by Adam Clarke The kingdom of heaven suffereth violence] The tax-gatherers and heathens, whom the scribes and Pharisees think have no right to the kingdom of the Messiah, filled with holy zeal and earnestness, seize at once on the proffered mercy of the Gospel, and so take the kingdom as by force from those learned doctors who claimed for themselves the chiefest places in that kingdom. Christ himself said, The tax-gatherers and harlots go before you into the kingdom of God. See the parallel place, Lu 7:28-30.

He that will take, get possession of the kingdom of righteousness, peace, and spiritual joy, must be in earnest: all hell will oppose him in every step he takes; and if a man be not absolutely determined to give up his sins and evil companions, and have his soul saved at all hazards, and at every expense, he will surely perish everlastingly. This requires a violent earnestness.

This view is built into Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress; Then the Interpreter took him, and led him up towards the door of the palace; and behold, at the door stood a great company of men, as desirous to go in, but durst not. There also sat a man at a little distance from the door, at a table-side, with a book and his inkhorn before him, to take the names of them that should enter therein; he saw also that in the doorway stood many men in armor to keep it, being resolved to do to the men that would enter, what hurt and mischief they could.

Now was Christian somewhat in amaze. At last, when every man started back for fear of the armed men, Christian saw a man of a very stout countenance come up to the man that sat there to write, saying, “Set down my name, sir;” the which when he had done, he saw the man draw his sword, and put a helmet on his head, and rush towards the door upon the armed men, who laid upon him with deadly force; but the man, not at all discouraged, fell to cutting and hacking most fiercely. So after he had received and given many wounds to those that attempted to keep him out, Matt. 11:12; Acts 14:22; he cut his way through them all, and pressed forward into the palace; at which there was a pleasant voice heard from those that were within, even of those that walked upon the top of the palace, saying,
“Come in, come in,
Eternal glory thou shalt win.”
So he went in, and was clothed with such garments as they. Then Christian smiled, and said, I think verily I know the meaning of this.
Now, said Christian, let me go hence...But for myself, I am not convinced that this is really what it means in the gospel context.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/12/12 6:06Profile
tacklebox
Member



Joined: 2005/10/8
Posts: 196
Roanoke Rapids, NC

 Re:

I found a Spurgeon sermon solely on that verse called "Holy Violence":

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1134394738-1956.html


_________________
Christopher Wright

 2005/12/12 8:40Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2707
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: WHAT EXACTLY DOES MATT 11:12 MEAN!!

This is definitely one of those difficult verses. I tend to agree with the classical interpretation that Ron posted however here is another take on this verse...

From The Kingdom in Matthew, by Matthew Allen, posted at www.bible.org

"Then Jesus said something even more strange: “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force.” (Mt. 11:12). The phrase “the kingdom of heaven suffers violence” (NASB) has been variously interpreted. The NIV states that the kingdom “has been forcefully advancing.” The verb biazetai holds the key to the correct view. Carson believes that it supports the NIV rendering of the passage because it is in the middle form.This implies that “the kingdom has come with holy power and magnificent energy that has been pushing back the frontiers of darkness.” Moreover, instead of violent men taking over in a negative sense, forceful men take hold of the kingdom in a positive sense. As Carson sums up this difficult passage, “from the days of the Baptist—i.e., from the beginning of John’s ministry—the kingdom has been forcefully advancing . . . . But it has not swept all opposition away, as John expected."


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2005/12/12 11:29Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

It is a difficult verse and one which ought not to be taken as the single foundation for a whole way of thinking. I have often wondered whether the Lord was commending this state of events or condemning it. Take a look at the verse again to understand my thought...


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/12/12 18:15Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

brethren
the verse says that the kingdom of God is taken by the violent. what the Lord showed me about that is the life of a Christian isn't easy. we are at war with the enemy and if we are not vigilent or violent we will not prevail. Just as surely as the enemy came out swinging against the ministry of John the Baptist and against the early church, you had better believe we need to do the same. We need to come out and give the enemy a thorough whipping. We are armed not with carnal weapons but powerul spiritual ones which pull down strongholds. those strongholds are liken to fortresses in my mind and if you want to bring down or take over a fortress you best bring it all.

We must remember that is warring is in the Spirit realm and if we don't fight the enemy in this place we're not going to gain any ground.

the word says

[b]11:12And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.[/b]

that's simple enough for me. if you're not violent, determined to enter the kingdom then you won't get in. if you're not in the business of warring against the enemy out in the world and as he comes against you in the flesh, you're not getting in. if you're not in the business of earnestly working with the Spirit of God to put down and crucify your flesh, then you're not getting in. to me it is simple, if you're no violent, you're not entering heaven.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/12/15 13:58Profile
Apprehended
Member



Joined: 2005/7/29
Posts: 10


 Re: WHAT EXACTLY DOES MATT 11:12 MEAN!!

Matthew 11:12 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

12 And from the days of John the Baptist until the present time, the kingdom of heaven has endured violent assault, and violent men seize it by force [as a precious prize--a [a]share in the heavenly kingdom is sought with most ardent zeal and intense exertion].

Footnotes
Matthew 11:12 Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.

 2005/12/15 17:40Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4476


 Re: WHAT EXACTLY DOES MATT 11:12 MEAN!!

Hi AARON619...!

Quote:
WHAT EXACTLY DOES MATT 11:12 MEAN!!

This is such an interesting passage! However, most modern believers interpret the verse to mean that Christians need to have a [u]violent[/u] attitude in [i]spiritual[/i] [i]warfare[/i].

However, I am open to the idea that the verse may refer to the [u]Kingdom of Darkness'[/u] violence against the Kingdom of God.

Remember, the preceding verses in that passage refer to the [u]doubt[/u] of John the Baptist, while he was locked up in a prison (soon to be awaiting execution). John did an incredible work for the Lord. He preached the message of Christ's coming with complete diligence. However, while in prison, seeds of doubt somehow entered his mind. He sent his disciples for an assurance from Christ.

This passage is wonderful in that it exposes the lack of favoritism from the Lord to those in the Kingdom of God. Even believers as "great" as John were not above problems. And Jesus continued by reminding us that the [i]least[/i] in the Kingdom is greater than John (verse 11).

The modern interpretation (used by many televangelists) often seems to be indicative of a Church void of meekness and humility. The messages of the prophets (including John) -- until Christ began his ministry -- indeed often seemed to be confrontational and devoid of grace. It represented an "in your face" type of message -- that exposes sin, but forgetting to show the compassion and patience of Christ. But when Christ came, he mingled his message with divine love. Or course, we should be fearless in our preaching -- but only preaching with a passion that is motivated by such love.

What does the verse really mean? I am still praying for the answer myself. But the message at the end of the chapter is entirely clear:
Quote:
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2005/12/16 0:33Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
hat's simple enough for me. if you're not violent, determined to enter the kingdom then you won't get in. if you're not in the business of warring against the enemy out in the world and as he comes against you in the flesh, you're not getting in. if you're not in the business of earnestly working with the Spirit of God to put down and crucify your flesh, then you're not getting in. to me it is simple, if you're no violent, you're not entering heaven.

Is this really how you got into the kingdom? or was it by grace through faith?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/12/16 2:42Profile
Axe1338
Member



Joined: 2005/10/31
Posts: 120
Miami, Fl

 Re:

The Kingdom suffereth violence and the violent take it by force...

suffereth means permits...

if this helps you at all...

 2005/12/16 8:35Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy