My sister-inlaw just got married this year and for the past year her an her husband have been attending an EXTREME word faith church.
The problem is that they are getting deeper and deeper involved in this church and they are spouting insane doctrines. They are telling others that they are saved only because the said "Jesus". The latest concern is that my sister-inlaw has recently become pregnant and has started having morning sickness. But because of the church her huband (and the church) has started treating her with love because they beleive that if she had enough faith she would not be in pain or be sick. He is also telling everyone that she will have a painless child birth. When anyone approaches this topic (the child birth curse to Eve) the only response he give is it is old covenent and we are under new covenent, and will not say anything else.
They are so close minded, and everyone at the church has made tha pastor an idol. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this?
| 2005/12/10 13:54||Profile|
| 2005/12/10 13:58||Profile|
| Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!|
He is also telling everyone that she will have a painless child birth
Apparently the pastor and his wife have never had children!
| 2005/12/10 14:56||Profile|
I am not sure how exactly to deal with it, but I am writing to let you know you are not alone. I have a couple very close friends who while not necessarily believing all the heresies of Word/Faith do associate with the likes of Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyers, Oral Roberts, TD Jakes, and Joel Osteen. I have gently discussed some of the false teachings and lifestyles of such pastors, but my friends tend to brush them off in favor of, "but look what they do for the Lord". It's very hard, especially with them being such dear friends. Lots of prayer is all I can suggest. I'm with you brother.
| 2005/12/10 15:04||Profile|
Well I am going to tell you that in my expereince the Word of Faith is very similar to dealing with a cult. Based on their doctrinal statement I would say that they are not heretics but based on some of the sermon titles (the streaming wouldn't work for me but I will try again later) they are in deep theolgical error. The divine healing quesiton and faith come up a lot with these people -- they question anyone that has any kind of illness -- even a cold -- an accuse people of lacking faith. The question I always put to them then what about Hebrews 11 -- one of the great signs of faith is being able to suffer through things in the service of God. Paul tells Timothy that he should take a little wine for his 'frequent alliments'. Notice he does not yell at Timothy for lacking faith. The fact is this can get to be a very manipulative thing much like a cult and it should be treated as such.
Now, for the record friend -- I am a Pentecostal and I believe in divine healing -- Biblical divine healing! Much of the word of Faith is built on doctrines that are the product of 'new revelation' of the Holy Spirit. When a Scripture contradicts it they will resort to some unique interpretations to get it to fit their already preconcieved doctrine. This a very real spiritual battle.
As a Pentecostal I want everyone to also know that there are a few of us that do have brains and use them. I try to love my Father with my mind and not just my heart, soul and strength. It does however not alter my thought that 'the prayer offered in faith (by the elders of the church) will save the sick. Or Jesus remark that we would do greater miracles because he is with the Father. If your wondering -- no I am not a dispensationalist -- I beleive Paul points out that truly there has only been one dispensation ever -- 'by grace through faith'. All faith in Christ -- OT believers looked forward through a glass darkly and we look back to the cross and ressurrection.
Healing comes 5 different ways
1. Matural process
3. The above 1 and 2 plus God speeding up the process -- I myself recovered from and illness this way -- suppossed to be out of school for 2 weeks becasue of an operation -- by my first doctor visit after the surgery -- 3 days later -- the doctor remarked that I could go back immediately as I had healed very quickly -- 'too quickly' he puzzled -- Had a lot of folks praying for me.
4. Divine Healing -- I have seen and verified many . Benny Hinn fakes many, but occasionally there are a few healing -- not becasue of Benny but becasue of their faith in God to do it. To bad too because of people like him people are so skeptical of this becasue of some of the messengers -- But God is still our healer.
5. The Ressurection -- only problem i can see with this one is you may have to die to experience it ;-). This is the ultimately healing -- the complete redemption of our bodies.
Note: We can pray and God will answer. -- but God himself chooses which of the above he will use. this is the problem with the Word of faith -- they won't accept this statement because ot them only divine healing counts.
| 2005/12/10 15:07||Profile|
| Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!|
yep. got a friend who was involved in something very similar. stuffed her life around badly, she is still bearing the consequences.
it was fully a cult, and the fbi shut it down, no joke.
| 2005/12/10 22:03||Profile|
Santa Clara, CA
| Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!|
I am terribly sorry to hear this... Came out of similar constructs. This may sound contrary, but perhaps some messages from here, if you could get them into their hands... It was the louder voices that finally got my attention. Maybe a compilation of sorts, "Ten Shekels" for instance as well as some David Wilkerson and Ravenhill, others. There is any number of message that we could pull up in this regards. I realize this may difficult to do, maybe as a Christmas gift and without any particular pushing forward an 'agenda' so to speak. It can be extremely difficult to turn the mindset of this line of thinking.
This is precisely the problems we have mentioned in some recent postings. It breaks my heart. Will be praying about this.
| 2005/12/11 1:10||Profile|
New England USA
I wouldn't go as far to say that I was in a cult, but I was in a very "off-balanced" penecostal church when I was first saved. The thing that snapped me out of it was David Wilkerson's sermon, "The Christless Penetecost." That sermon literally changed my life!
| 2005/12/14 0:35||Profile|
Ok. I listened to some of the sermons -- well at least parts of them. (sorry I had to turn some of them off becasue they was no meat to them like the guys on this site;-) ) Seems to be typical WoF stuff -- for a Guy who is supposedly studying the Word so much he seems to pick out what he wants to see and ignores what doesn't fit. Hate to say it it looks like one of those guys that people have heaped to themsleves having itching ears. Teach anything as long as it justifies fleshly appetites along with a helpful does of condemnation for people -- 'who don't have faith enough to beleive what I am saying' in all this. Brother my prayers are with you on this. No heresy I could find, but gross theologiccal error. Definitely a different gospel which is no gospel at all.
Blessings and prayers.
| 2005/12/15 21:46||Profile|
| Re: God is one's true authority|
The problem is that they are getting deeper and deeper involved in this church. They are so close minded, and everyone at the church has made tha pastor an idol.
Any branch of religion can turn cultish when its leader requires more allegiance than is acceptable.
Never is it appropriate for a leader to manipulate, control or assert himself over the will or emotions of another. Even God does not do that.
Regardless of the orgainization, it is never, never right for anybody to surrender their will, emotions, and commitments to it or its pastor even if he seems to be the greatest on earth. God is the ultimate authority of these things - never man. The details about the crazy doctrine are all secondary to this issue of total loyalty - as demanded by cults.
From what you are describing, I sense some very strong warning flags.This is not likely a good place to remain in.
You cannot assert yourself over your sister and her husband, and try to push them out. That might have a reverse effect. You could perhaps share some of your own observations, and concerns, but they need to make the choice themselves. And they need your support, because, if they try to leave, or express their concerns, they may be made to feel guilt and shame for doing so.
You may want to look up "Spiritual Abuse" on the net for some more information about this all too common problem in churches.
| 2005/12/15 22:55||Profile|