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Nasher
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Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Should we celebrate Christmas?

Should we celebrate Christmas?

We should celebrate the birth of Christ (more than once a year though) but should we celebrate Christmas?


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Mark Nash

 2005/12/9 11:54Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re: Should we celebrate Christmas?

I love Christmas and celebrate it everyday. The date matters not, and if the world can see a celebration that honors Jesus Christ and His birth, so be it. We should be Christmas to the World everyday, the Birth of Christ in us.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2005/12/9 22:46Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Should we celebrate Christmas?

There is no Biblical command to do so.

The observance of Christmas is a human tradition, a compromise with paganism. Christ's birthday was chosen 3oo years later because it was the birthday of a pagan deity.

When something is done over and over again, then the conscience thinks it must be the right thing to do. That is how we become enslaved to man's traditions.

There is a big difference between doing something out of choice and out of obligation.
Let the Spirit reveal to you what he desires for you regarding the Christmas season. That is the only way you will know what God requires of you. Getting a consenses among Christins may help you think through things, but that can't replace the Spirit's guidance for you.

Enjoy your journey, and may God reveal to you surprising truths about himself!
Diane


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Diane

 2005/12/9 22:57Profile









 Re:

Diane, I ardently agree with you. No where in Scriptures are we commanded to observe the birth of Christ. On the contrary, we are commanded to observe the death of Christ. That is enough for me to not "celebrate" or observe Christmas.

When a tradition has pagan origins (and pagan in and of itself) is observed by the world over, it should be denounced by the Christians.

God's word forbids the observance of any holy day:
"Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain." (Gal 4:10-11)

And, the Christmas tree among other things is clearly denounced:
". . . Learn not the way of the heathen,. . . For the customs of the people are vain- for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not... But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities" (Jer. 10:2-4, 8)

Christmas is even in its wording itself expresses nothing more than one of the most abominable acts on this earth, the mass of Christ as used by the Roman Catholic Church. Hence, Christ-mass. This is a mockery unto God and all Christians should not take part in such paganism.

Charles Spurgeon, in the Treasury of David, concerning Psalm 81:4, wrote,

"When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide, and other Popish festivals was ever instituted by a divine statute, we also will attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord. We ask concerning every rite and rubric, 'Is this a law of the God of Jacob?' and if it be not clearly so, it is of no authority with us, who walk in Christian liberty."

Let us turn to the Scriptures, and "be ye separate, saith the Lord." (II Cor. 6:17)

 2005/12/10 4:23
CJaKfOrEsT
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: Doubts re: Christmas

This year has been the first the my conscience has even quentioned Christmas. Having dedicated alot of time to the study of Church History, this year, and learning of how the papacy, under the "Chirtian Emperors", between Constantine and the fall of Rome, moulded christianity to conform with the pagan religions of the nations they preached to (including incorporating Mary, and saint worship, to appeal to the need for goddess and pantheon worship).

Few of us would participate in worshipping Mary, or a transubstantive (ie, Catholic style) eucharist, or bow down to the anti (oops, I mean "viccar of") christ (naughty, I know), so why stop there? Why don't we celebrate the Jewish festivals, when we do celebrate pagan ones?

Still wrestling with this and, to be honest, I have my tree up again this year, however, I find it hard to sit stillwhen I hear someone say, "Jesus is the reason for the season", and "We need to get back to the [b]Christian origins[/b] of Christmas."

Anyone else sharemy concerns? Even more-so, does anyone else get accused of "fanaticism" whenever they mention it to another believer?


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Aaron Ireland

 2005/12/10 4:24Profile
saved_matt
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Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
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 Re: Should we celebrate Christmas?

I have recently been questioning whether or not to celebrate Christmas, my former house church leader was dead against it.

In our family though, and were all christians (except my dad), we have never questioned celebrating Christmas, we are aware it has it's roots in a pagan celebration, but we are celebrating the birth of the Lord Jesus into the world.

my question to those who don't celebrate Christmas, do you celebrate the Lord's birth around the feast of tabernacles? If so, great! if not, when do you celebrate the Lord coming to our world?

As my mum often quips 'When you read the gospel accounts of the nativity the only one who isn't celebrating the birth of Jesus is Herod'

mat


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matt

 2005/12/10 5:50Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: More Christmas 'Cheer'

Had thought about attempting to pull together all the various post's and threads in this regards at one point and found it to be likely more confusing than helpful. So, would suggest a search or as a help will try and pull together a series of links that have some history over the duration of this site's existence.

Am of a dissenting opinion here. To use some of the logic reasoned for not 'observing' Christmas is curious;

Quote:
No where in Scriptures are we commanded to observe the birth of Christ. On the contrary, we are commanded to observe the death of Christ. That is enough for me to not "celebrate" or observe Christmas.

Quote:
There is no Biblical command to do so.



That is an argument from silence.

[b]Gal 4:10 - Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.[/b] Lest the apostle should be thought to suggest, without foundation, the inclination of these people to be in bondage to the ceremonies of the law, he gives this as an instance of it; which is to be understood, not of a civil observation of times, divided into days, months, and years, for which the luminaries of the heavens were made, and into summer and winter, seedtime and harvest, which is not only lawful, but absolutely necessary; but of a religious observation of days, &c. not of the lucky and unlucky days, or of any of the festivals of the Gentiles, but of Jewish ones. By "days" are meant their seventh day sabbaths; for since they are distinguished from months and years, they must mean such days as returned weekly; and what else can they be but their weekly sabbaths? These were peculiar to the Israelites, and not binding on others; and being typical of Christ, the true rest of his people, and he being come, are now ceased. By "months" are designed their new moons, or the beginning of their months upon the appearance of a new moon, which were kept by blowing trumpets, offering sacrifices, hearing the word of God, abstaining from work, and holding religious feasts; and were typical of that light, knowledge, and grace, the church receives from Christ, the sun of righteousness; and he, the substance, being come, these shadows disappeared. By "times" are intended the three times in the year, when the Jewish males appeared before the Lord at Jerusalem, to keep the three feasts of tabernacles, passover, and pentecost, for the observance of which there was now no reason; not of the feast of tabernacles, since the word was made flesh, and tabernacled among us; nor of the passover, since Christ, our passover, is sacrificed for us; nor of pentecost, or the feast of weeks, or of the first fruits of the harvest, since the Spirit of God was poured down in a plenteous manner on that day upon the apostles; and when the firstfruits of a glorious harvest were brought in to the Lord, in the conversion of three thousand souls. And by "years" are to be understood their sabbatical years; every seventh year the land had a rest, and remained untilled; there were no ploughing and sowing, and there was a general release of debtors; and every fiftieth year was a jubilee to the Lord, when liberty to servants, debtors, &c. was proclaimed throughout the land: all which were typical of rest, payment of debts, and spiritual liberty by Christ; and which having their accomplishment in him, were no longer to be observed; wherefore these Galatians are blamed for so doing; and the more, because they were taught to observe them, in order to obtain eternal life and salvation by them.

John Gill

The problem with a lot of these deriving's from scripture is that they have no basis in what was meant when they were written. The whole of the "Christmas tree". Been over this in other threads, what was spoken of in Jeremiah needs to be taken within it's context, fully. What is the point of the whole matter there? 'Creating' and worshiping of idols, [i] For the customs of the peoples are vanity; for one cutteth a tree out of the forest,... They are like a palm-tree, of turned work, and speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good.[/i] It is quite the reach to attribute this to our modern day usage, is the first week of January a day of rejoicing because all the 'idols' are taken out to the trash? Which leads to the next question, what are we to do with all the other 'pagan' things that corrupt this world we live in. Day's of the week, names of the month, cities, street's derived from all sorts of historical assumptions and previous usages? Some examples;

[b]March[/b]
"In ancient Rome, March was called Martius, so named after the Roman god of war and was considered a lucky time to begin a war.

[b]August[/b]
August was named in honor of Augustus Caesar. The month reputedly has 31 days because Augustus wanted as many days as Julius Caesar's July. Augustus placed the month where it is because that's when Cleopatra died. Before Augustus renamed August, it was called Sextilis in Latin, since it was the sixth month in the Roman calendar which started in March.

In the pagan wheel of the year August begins at or near Lughnasadh in the northern hemisphere and Imbolc in the southern hemisphere.

[u]Wheel of the Year[/u]
In Neopaganism, the Wheel of the Year is the natural cycle of the seasons, commemorated by the eight Sabbats.

Because one tenet of Neopaganism is that all of nature is cyclical, the passing of time is also seen as a cycle, a wheel which turns and turns. The course of birth, life, decline, and death that we see in our human lives is echoed in the seasons. The eight Sabbats are religious holidays that celebrate the passing of the year.

Each Sabbat also symbolizes a time in the life of the God, who is born from the Goddess, grows to full manhood, mates with her, and reigns as king during the summer. He then declines and dies, rising anew the next year.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All these things have root's and derivatives. More of this brought out in other postings, cereals come to mind of more of the same. It would be dishonest not to address some of these things, that are mentioned along with the commercialism, materialism, the ironic flippancy towards Whose birth it is that at least at some point in time was the whole reasoning behind acknowledging and celebrating this most incredible event in human history. The irony is for some, the pagan aspects are being drawn back to it's roots by changing the [i]meaning[/i] back more in line with those very roots. In other words, those that would have a problem with this are getting much help, the world has already come alongside and taken Jesus Christ out and replaced it with various out takes more resembling pagan activities "Winter Solstice", seasonal this and that, whatever they wish to call it. Not unlike efforts to eradicate the name of God due to spurious and absurd collisions of 'separation of church and state', out of the schools, out of the courts, take down the Ten Commandments, shouldn't be much longer before it's taken off the currency here... What it boils down to is, the world is waxing cold or is it burning hot with indignation at any mention of God, of Jesus Christ and the "Christians" are just as happy to oblige them in some sense. Are you happy now? Will you be content to join the miserable Jehovah's Witness's taken up with their misconstruing of scripture and replace what might be a heart honoring love towards God for sending His only Son to this miserable planet to save the likes of the unappreciative, rebellious ______* that we are, with a bitterness towards this 'Pagan' holiday?

By the way, this might sound more 'angry' than intended, it's not that. Just wonder where our hearts are sometimes. Some of the other articles posted have much to say about this. Wish it was easier to put in a nice nutshell, but for all the traditions and particular upbringing, Christmas was always a respite from the dregs of living on this sin infested planet. A time of wonder and joy and hope at the possibilities and long sought for coming of the Lord again for the second and final time. It now has much more deeper and truer meaning than it once did.

"O Holy Night" is something I keep appealing to. It can draw out the richness of longing for the Lord to return and return the world back to it's right intentions once and for all. To think of it in an altogether different light, what Christmas means not to the 'pagan' world, not to the 'mass' nor the masses, not even to all the "Christians" that now want to close the church on this particular day, something telling in a general sense out of all this... What does this all mean in the broad sense? Doesn't it seem peculiar what is happening in our day, especially here in America? Just in the last few years, this build up, this effort to 'remove'... The interesting thing is that though in large part there has always been the truth of "[i]these people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me"[/i] Now even the lips are to soon stop. If we don't have a true and real revival in this land soon, all this belly aching over Christmas will become but a wished for longing one day. We will have our pagan proscriptions proven true right before our very eyes. Watch out what you wish for.

[i]Fall on your knees, Oh hear the angel voices!
O night divine, O night, when Christ was born!
O night, O holy night, O night divine.[/i]

The irony there is that we will not fall on our knees, even as it is being sung.


*[url=http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bastard]meaning here[/url] (Edit: Second thought's on leaving this word in here, too many possible misunderstandings)


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Mike Balog

 2005/12/10 9:49Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2737
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
There is no Biblical command to do so. The observance of Christmas is a human tradition, a compromise with paganism. Christ's birthday was chosen 3oo years later because it was the birthday of a pagan deity.



Even though there may have been some pagan elements that were originally associated with a celebration at this time of year I don't believe that makes celebrating the birth of Christ wrong. Our celebration of Christmas is not the same as that old celebration. In fact, it's quite different. We are celebrating the birth of Jesus.

I agree that we aren't under obligation to celebrate Christmas and that there is no Scripture that commands it but it strikes me that it is entirely appropriate. There are many cases in the Bible of feasts being kept in order to remind the people of the importance and significance of certain events. For me Christmas is a wonderful reminder of the mercy and grace of God. What we do on Christmas is focus on the birth of Jesus Christ, and what an event that was!

You could probably go back and find all kinds of wierd ideology behind many of the things we do every day, but it doesn't matter because that ideology doesn't have any meaning for people NOW.

I guess I just don't see how celebrating the birth of Christ is wrong.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2005/12/10 10:20Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: Should we celebrate Christmas?

Christians celebrate Christ every day. He is our indweling Life, we pray, we fellowhip with Him, we feed on Him, and we live by Him.

He is not a baby in a manger. Today He is the Risen Lord Jesus ascended in the heavens and indwelling us as our Life.

My experience has been the more the Lord has gained in me and the more of Christ I have gained, the more "celebrating Christmas" has become just an excercise in overcomming.

It does provide opertunites to speak of Christ and many seem to be more open to talk about spiritual thigs, But the day itself is just a day.

The existance of "Christmas" is probably good for unbelievers because it forces them to consider this great "event". The incarnation of the Lord Jesus. "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us". But for believers, we ought to be one with the Lord every day and don't need "special days".

The biggest trial is in dealing with family. With parents who are offended if you don't do "Santa Clause" with your kids, or who religiously celebrate the day.

I think we just have to walk closly with the Lord and be sensitive to the Spirit. We are not opposed to Christmas and walk around with a scoul on our face and condemn everyone who puts up a tree. Who doesn't like "chestnuts roasting on an open fire" and pretty lights and snow and sleighbells?

But it is to us just a day to know and Live Christ and to walk in the reality of our union with Him and to express Him in all things.

If we can get through the season without grieving the Spirit we have done well.

"As far as lies within you, be at peace with all men."

Graftedbranch

 2005/12/10 10:41Profile









 Re:

I personally do not celebrate Christmas nor does my family.Shortly after being saved and before I married my husband my parents and I discovered that Christmas was not scriptural.Not only that but that it was pagan and born out of Idolatry.We still celebrated it though- somewhat.When I met my husband I found out that he always hated having to celebrate Christmas with his family because he believes that God has nothing to do with Christmas and that its pagan.So when we got married we discussed are we going to keep celebrating Christmas with our families because sooner or later we are going to have kids and we can't wean them with Christmas and than yank it out from under them.So before we had kids we decided we would not celebrate it.I reluctantly agreed because I still somewhat liked Christmas but I knew my husband's strong stand on Christmas and didn't want to start celebrating it and than pull the rug out from under my kids.So we came into agreement and dont celebrate it.My kids care nothing about Christmas because we have our own special day where we do things for them and this year were going to buy them a ping pong table.Thats all they care about.Im even thinking of having some outdoor lighting around my house because the kids like the lights but nothing colored which I dont care for anyway.We also like to roast marshmellows every year in the back yard and have a big feast and we plan on going camping this year too.Im glad now we don't celebrate it and I always make sure that we do fun things with the kids and that keeps them happy.

 2005/12/10 13:15





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