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Discussion Forum : General Topics : A SINLESS LIFE - Is It POSSIBLE?

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Onfire
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Joined: 2005/11/20
Posts: 49


 Re:

Jim Bob ~> By all means and thanks for addressing this.

I too believe that faith is a gift from God and we have been given the choice to exercise that faith in Him.

You're correct and I apologize for making it look like we have to work to our salvation. That stuff turns my stomach as I know of many in bondage to that kind of thinking. Christ sanctifying us is most certainly a result of being under His saving grace.

 2005/12/9 11:12Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I can concure with the article by Andrew Strom, although I think he downplays his sin by saying he "inadvertently trips up".



I think what he is trying to say here is that he knows he is not perfect, while making a distinction between full on sin and stumbling. (I'll get my helmet)


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/12/9 11:16Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
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 Re:

Hi Ron,

Heb. 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Can you break down this passage for us? More specifically, is the one 'without sin' in this passage [i]Christ[/i] or '[i]them[/i] that look for Him'?

Thanks!



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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/12/9 11:20Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
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 Re:

I thought the difference between a sinner and a saint is that a saint may "fall" into sin, while the sinner jumps headlong.

The saint fights against it. He/she loves righteousness and hates sin.

If you walked out the door of your home and fell into a hole you would 'fall.' If you walked out your door again and fell into the same hole, I think you need to question yourself and see what the problem is. If you walked out your door the 3rd time and fell into the same hole.. I think you would be a fool or you enjoy falling into holes. Watch where you are going!


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Josh Parsley

 2005/12/9 11:24Profile
Onfire
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Joined: 2005/11/20
Posts: 49


 Re:

Peach ~> Can someone fall in and out of being separated from God?

 2005/12/9 11:29Profile
moreofHim
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Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: sinless perfection

I know we have discussed this topic before and I still have the same questions as before- similar to what Robert what saying. There are outward sins, which are usually the first to go, and then there are sins of the heart (hidden attitudes, etc...) that are sometimes not revealed to us accept as time goes on. Early in my close walk with the Lord, because i had gotten rid of alot of outward sins, I thought I could walk in sinless perfection- this lasted only a short while until the Lord knocked me off my high horse and showed me the condition of my heart- not once but many times and continues to do so. What of the sin of pride, anger, hidden bitter feelings which we may still have no known knowledge of. If we have any of these, this is not walking in sinless perfection. And not one of us is completely free from pride. It always rears it's ugly head and if we are teachable and wanting to come clean before the Lord we will ask for it to be exposed at every turn.

Just when i think I've conquered some area that the Lord reveals to me that is not in accordance to His word, that He wants me to work on (and i consider these things sin, whether it be a critical attitude, doubt, whatever), just when I think I am 'somewhere' - I have achieved some sense of 'holiness'-- the Lord comes along side after a very short while and again holds His mirror up to my heart and exposes more sin. More pride. Another hidden idol. Another sinful attitude toward someone. Being too harsh with my children. It is a lifetime of stripping away.

I don't say this to make any excuses for anyone or my own sin. I know many people may think that I would oppose this sinless perfection because I want to make excuses for my sin. The Lord knows my heart and how I long to be pure and clean before Him. How I continually ask Him to show me my heart so that i can be more like Him. As He contually shows me more things as my life goes on, I have to admit that I am in no way walking in sinless perfection. Though I strive to, though I am willing for the Lord to show me my heart at any time-- i must trust that He will show me what He wants me to learn, when He wants to. I trust that He will deal with me as He will. I cannot work it, I cannot do it. I can only be willing.

As far as John Wesley is concerned, I still have many questions about his beliefs. I have read his biography and many things about his life and it was quite evident that despite his many 'rules' and 'disciplines' at a young age, attempting to be 'holy'-- it was not unitl a later age (30 something) that He finally found the peace and salvation of the Lord. No amount of getting up at 4:00 am, or holding a holy club and doing good, and seeking out all sinful behavior on his own could save him. No amount of keeping special rules could save him.

As someone quoted above about asking Wesley on his deathbed if it was possible, and with tears in his eyes, he responded that he had yet to attain it. That is very sad to me. It gives me a picture of a man who strived all of his life to achieve something that was impossible this side of heaven. Instead of resting and trusting the Lord for His salvation and cleansing work and sanctification, he seemed to be endlessly striving in the flesh, striving and working. The pressure he must have felt all of his life to try and meet this standard that was embedded in his mind. What an awful way to live. And to know that all his life, all that he strived for, was still not accomplished, what a failure he must have felt like. But in reality, [b]it was not his to accomplish, but the Lord's[/b]. If we are willing, if we are humble and childlike and open to correction at all times, the Lord WILL see to it that we are changed moment by moment. Life is a process of growing and changing. Who can tell me that once they were saved that they instantly became like Jesus and have walked in that ever since? Jesus was sinless perfection. He was our example to look to. But who is just like him in all ways and all areas of life?

Even Paul states : "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me." Phil. 3:12 Do any of think us better or more holy than Paul? Yes, we must press on to perfection. We must always be changing and growing toward that goal. But as soon as we think we are perfect, is that not pride? Is that not an opportunity to be puffed up and think ourselves better than others?

Speaking of perfection, what of this verse: "But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection." Col 3:14 I can tell you right now, that i am lacking in this area. I know I have more to work on in this area of of love and not having a critical attitude. To me and to the Lord, these are sins. What must we say about these. In my life, I have such a long way to go to become more like Him. This is my desire to change more and more into His image, day by day, minute by minute, year by year. And He IS working this in me. I know this. I trust Him to do this in me. I can rest in the knowledge that He is in control of my life and my sanctification. But as I sit here, I can say with all honesty and humility, that I am no where near sinless or perfect. May God have His way with me and may His will be done.

In His love, Chanin


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Chanin

 2005/12/9 11:34Profile
Onfire
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Joined: 2005/11/20
Posts: 49


 Re:

Chanin ~> Is sin bad behaviour or being separated from God?

What I'm asking is that are we separated from God first and then the behaviour or actions are the result of being separated from Him. It seems that many people think that the behaviour or action is the actual sin.

 2005/12/9 11:36Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
Let me be very clear in opening this topic: We are talking about
the "inner man" here. And this is the secret to the 'sinless' life.


already this article has become into the wrong direction, this is a sort of gnoticism seperating the working of the flesh and spirit and the only part of us that can be redeemed or of any value is the inner man "spirit".

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

Notice Paul says: spirit, soul AND [b]spirit[/b].

Quote:
No STRIVING or "TRYING to be good". This
is clearly what the New Testament describes as normal


There is absolutely not grounding in scripture for this concept of passivity that aquires sinless-ness. There needs to be a constant "reckoning" and striving to enter into the "rest" (Hebrews 4:8-11, Romans 6:11).

Quote:
We have so reduced the gospel today to make it more "convenient"
that it is no gospel at all. And thus we have entire church-loads
of people who are completely unsaved. They go down the front
and pray the "little prayer", then they spend the rest of their lives
paying their tithes and "trying to be good". -This is what a lot of
our Christianity amounts to. And it is all garbage. It is no "new
birth" at all. Wesley would be rolling in his grave to see what we
preach as the 'new birth' today.


Great statement! It is so true that people are making decisions and not being "born" at the altar. "And it is all garbage." I think andrew is the only fellow that can pull that statement off. It definetly isn't something pretty and we need to change ourselves and pray for God to change this situation. A normal Christian is a "holy" Christian.

Quote:
Today, we are no longer bringing people into this state with our
preaching. And therefore I say to you - "WE HAVE LOST THE
GOSPEL". And when we lose the gospel, we lose Christianity itself.


Christianity and the Gospel is Christ, and surely we have not lost Christ, can He even be lost? we are propogating an false gospel surely if elements are missing or in extreme.

Quote:
We say we want "apostolic preaching" and true "Revival" preachers.
I don't think we realize what we are asking for. -Such searching,
direct, bold and convicting preaching as we have never heard in our lives.


Amen may God bring many more in our day, We need revival preachers like these desperately, may God [b]shock[/b] us with them!


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/12/9 11:41Profile
moreofHim
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Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: sin

Onfire,

Sorry,I am not sure what you are asking.

I believe worry to be a sin. I belive bitterness to be a sin. I believe (spiritual) idolatry and adultery to be a sin.

In Him, Chanin


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Chanin

 2005/12/9 11:41Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
I believe worry to be a sin. I belive bitterness to be a sin. I believe (spiritual) idolatry and adultery to be a sin.


How about [b]pride[/b] or [b]selfishness[/b].

I remember sitting across from a brother and talking with him. And the conversation in scripture came to 1 John 1:8. He stated that he felt he had no sin right now as we were talking. And I asked him well do you think you sinned in the last hour? last 30 minutes? he said yes but he asked for forgivness and with a straight face told me he had right now no sense of sin in his life.

We can think we are sinless sitting by ourselves in a room but wait till God puts certain people or situations in our lifes. Or even if the presence of the Holy God comes near to us we will actually start to realize how sinful we are in light of God's absolute purity and perfection!

Have mercy on me God a sinner. is my constant heart-cry.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/12/9 11:47Profile





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