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repentcanada
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Joined: 2005/5/9
Posts: 659


 Healing of Diseases and other Physical Ailments

Is it okay for us as believers to trust that God will heal us of ALL our diseases and ailments? What is the response we give when someone we know is not healed and are suffering through a sickness? An example (not one which I am concerned with though): I have very flat feet which often are painful now if I pray in Jesus' name that they will be healed and restored and they are not then why is that? Do you just say it isn't God's will, or that they are lacking in faith to be healed?

Thank you all for answering

 2005/12/5 18:26Profile
martymill
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Joined: 2005/10/17
Posts: 48
Montreal, Canada

 Re: Healing of Diseases and other Physical Ailments

Myself I believe in healing. I broke a bone in my foot from a motocross accident a few years ago. It was a wednesday. I decided to wait until monday to get a cast because I wanted to be prayed for at church. Before the service even began, the pastor had a word of knowledge and I was healed. It wasn't a miracle, I still had pain. But I did walk out of the church with the crutches in my hands. The next weekend I went to play golf.

This being said, I know of believers who have at least as much faith as I do and still did not receive healing. I wish I knew why.

Martin


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Martin Millette

 2005/12/5 19:28Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
What is the response we give when someone we know is not healed and are suffering through a sickness?


Brother,

Imagine not having padded shoes but sandals or bare feet! We are blessed to have all the things of technology in this western culture were you live. We have to glory in our infirmities that the power of Christ rest more mightly upon us. God does heal and is as one said "in the healing business."

If the Lord does lay it on your heart to pray for something specific then I would see it ok to believe for the healing. But if you are walking with the Lord, having fruitful fellowship with him, living by faith, full of the holy spirit. Then if it doesn't happen you can't worry if you didn't have enough faith and beat yourself up about it. I am sure God is wanting us to have these infirmities many times so we can rely on him more.

There are specific infirimities that I have which I know God has and still does use to make me rely on His strength not my own.

Some of the apostles got sick and had infirimites etc did that mean they lost faith as they grew old? no! that simply means they grew olds in these perishable "tabernacles" bodies.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/12/5 21:05Profile
Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: Healing of Diseases and other Physical Ailments

Quote:
Is it okay for us as believers to trust that God will heal us of ALL our diseases and ailments?



It is very instuctive that Paul told Timothy "drink a little wine for the sake of your stomach and frequent ailments." He did not say, "brother, exercise your faith and believe God for healing".

Also Paul's "Thorn in the Flesh" was not removed but Grace was given to endure it. He sought for it but the Lord said,' My strength is made perfect in weakness". The issue is the Lord's will and intention and purpose.

It seems Paul's thorn was his vision. He says in one place, "see with what large letters I write" and in another, "I bear you witness you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me".

God heals. And He gives us faith to believe if that is his intention, either for ourselvses or others. When we pray and the Spirit quickens us in prayer, we have the faith to believe. But we cannot work up this faith. It is not a mental exercise. It is a matter of the Spirit in our spirit bearing witness to God's will as we pray and giving us the inner assurance that we have the request we have made.

But God is faithful and we should seek Him regarding any situation. He will either heal directly, through means, or be grace to us to bear it and glorify God in it.

Graftedbranch.

 2005/12/5 22:02Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Messenger of Satan

Hi GB,

Not to be didactic, but have often wondered at these possibilities....

Quote:
It seems Paul's thorn was his vision. He says in one place, "see with what large letters I write" and in another, "I bear you witness you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me".



2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, [b]the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.[/b]

Seems more that it is a harassment than a physical ailment, [i]a messenger of Satan[/i]

Never really sought out commentary on this but, this is really close to what I might have supposed ... and [i]then some[/i]!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[b]2Co 12:7 - And lest I should be exalted above measure,....[/b] Over much elated in his mind, and swelled with a vain conceit of himself:

[b]through the abundance of the revelations;[/b] for he had not only one or two, or a few, but an abundance of them; and which, as everything does but grace, tended to lift up his mind, to stir up the pride of his heart, and to entertain too high and exalted thoughts of himself. Pride is naturally in every man's heart; converted persons are not without it; knowledge, gifts, and revelations are apt to puff up with spiritual pride, unless counterbalanced and over poised by the grace of God. This great apostle was not out of danger by them, for he was not already perfect; wherefore to prevent an excess of pride and vanity in him on account of them, he says,

[b]there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me;[/b] many have been the thoughts and conjectures of men about what is here meant by the apostle. This ought to be allowed and taken for granted, that the thorn in the flesh, and the messenger of Satan, design one and the same thing; the former is a figurative expression, the latter a literal one, and explanative of the former. Some have thought that corporeal afflictions are here designed, which may be compared to thorns: see Hos_2:6, and which are not joyous, but grievous to the flesh, and come not by chance, but are by divine appointment, and are designed and made use of, to hide pride from men; and sometimes, by divine permission, Satan has an hand in inflicting them, as in the case of Job: whilst such a general sense is kept to, it is not to be despised, without entering into the particular bodily disorder with which the apostle was afflicted, as some do; some saying it was the choleic, others the gout, others a pain in the ear, and others the headache; which latter it is said he was much troubled with; but these are mere conjectures: others think that the corruptions of nature are intended which in regenerate persons are left, as the Canaanites were in the land, to be "thorns" in the eyes and sides of the Israelites, Jos_23:13. These, to be sure, were felt by the apostle, and were very grievous and humbling to him, and were no doubt sometimes stirred up by Satan, which made him complain bitterly, and groan earnestly; and it may be observed, to strengthen this sense, that it was usual with the Jews to call concupiscence, or the vitiosity of nature, Satan; for so they (a) often say, הרע השטן הוא יצר, "Satan, he is the evil imagination", or corruption of nature; and particularly they call the lust of uncleanness by this name; and it is said (b) of a young man of Israel, being tempted by a young woman of Midian, through the counsel of Balaam, that השטן בוער בו, "Satan burned in him", and he turned aside after her; and that the evil imagination is the old serpent; yea, they call this "the messenger of hell", a phrase very much like what is here used.

"R. Hona (c), as he was preaching to the children of men to take warning, said unto them, children, beware של גיהנם משליחא, "of the messenger of hell"; but who is this? the evil imagination, or concupiscence, is that which is "the messenger of hell";''

and this sense is agreeable, provided the particular corruption the apostle was harassed with is not pretended to, as is by some, who pitch upon the lust of uncleanness, and spare not to mention the person by name, one Tecla, who, they say, travelled with him, and was a snare to him; but this is to do injury to the character of so holy an apostle, and to represent him as exposing himself to the false apostles, against whom he was guarding: others think that a variety of afflictions, reproaches, and persecutions, for Christ's sake and the Gospel, are here meant, which were as pricking briers and grieving thorns to him; see Eze_28:24, and which were given and ordered by divine appointment for his good; this sense, 2Co_12:9, lead unto, and seem to confirm: others are of opinion that the temptations of Satan are designed, which, as they are called "fiery darts", which the archers of Satan, and his principalities and powers, shoot thick and fast at the saints, to their great annoyance; so may be here called, especially some very particular, eminent, and sore temptation, a "thorn in the flesh", very pungent, and giving a great deal of pain and uneasiness; others suppose that some particular emissary of Satan, either some one of the false apostles and teachers, who greatly opposed him, as Alexander the coppersmith, who did him much harm; or such an one as Hymenaeus or Philetus, that blasphemed and spoke evil of him; or some violent persecutor of him is intended. But, after all, I see not but that the devil himself may be meant; for, as before observed, the phrase "a thorn in the flesh" is metaphorical, and the other, a "messenger of Satan", is literal, and explains it; and the whole may be read thus, "there was given to me a thorn in the flesh", namely, αγγελος σαταν, "the angel Satan to buffet me"; so that Satan, who was once an angel of light, now of darkness, is the "thorn in the flesh"; and might be suffered to appear visibly to him from time to time, in a very terrible manner, and which was very grievous to be borne; he might by permission have great power over his body, as he had over Job's, to use it ill, to beat and buffet it; for this also may be taken literally: and he might likewise in other ways greatly distress him by stirring up the corruptions of his heart; by following him with his satanical injections, suggestions, and temptations; by raising violent persecutions, and instigating many of his emissaries against him; and this sense is the rather to be chosen, because it includes all others that have any show of truth. The Jews (d) sometimes make mention of the angel or messenger of Satan mocking at the righteous, and buffeting them; so God is by them said (e) to deliver Nebuchadnezzar למלאך השטן, "to a messenger of Satan". This sore exercise befell the apostle for his good, to keep down the pride of his nature;

[b]lest[/b] adds he again,

[b]I should be exalted above measure;[/b] for such ends and purposes does the Lord, in his infinite wisdom, deal with his people. The (f) Jews have a notion that this was one reason of God's tempting or trying Abraham with the sacrifice of his Son, to depress that pride that was likely to arise in him because of his greatness.

"This temptation (they say) was necessary at that time, because above, the grandeur of Abraham is declared how great it was before his enemies made peace with him; and Abimelech, king of the Philistines, and Phichol, the chief captain of his host, were obliged to enter into a covenant with him, and asked him to show favour to them, and to the land in which he sojourned; and perhaps hereby גבה לבו, "his heart was lifted up", in the ways of God; עיניו ורמו, "and his eyes were lofty"; when he saw himself blessed with riches, and with children, and with grandeur and glory, as the glory of kings; wherefore God was "willing to try him": with a wall of iron, (this great difficulty) to see if there was any dross left in him.''

(a) T. Bab. Bava Bathra, fol. 16. 1. Tzeror Hammor, fol. 6. 2. 3. s. 3. 10. 4. 13. 3. 20. 2. 50. 3. 58. 3. 72. 4. 73. 2. 86. 1. 87. 2. 93. 1. 96. 1. 99. 4. 100. 4. 101. 42. 113. 1. & 133. 2. & 141. 3. &; 149. 2. & 152. 3. Raya Mehimna in Zohar in Lev. fol. 7. 2. (b) Bemidbar Rabba, sect. 20. fol. 229. 1. (c) Midrash Hannelam in Zohar in Gen. fol. 67. 4. (d) R. Eliezer Katon de Scientia Animae, l. 10. apud Gaffarell. Cod. Cabal. Misc. pic. Mirandal. Index p. 23. ad calcem Wolf. Heb. Bibliothec. (e) Shemot Rabba, sect. 20. fol. 105. 4. (f) Tzeror Hammor, fol. 22. 1.

John Gill


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Mike Balog

 2005/12/6 0:46Profile
habakkuk3
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Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

As far as physical illness goes, I've found that the Lord uses my health at times to discipline me. I have intermittent asthma and it's not a significant problem unless there's some unconfessed sin or some other form of disobedience and the Lord has been using it to discipline me. I have been delivered from many things but I haven't prayed for deliverance on this one because if I did perhaps the discipline would need to be more severe to get my attention.

I've found that Jesus deals with his sheep in different ways but this is one of the ways he has dealt with me.

(Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.)


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Ed Pugh

 2005/12/8 10:19Profile
LetUsPray
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Joined: 2004/10/12
Posts: 173


 Re: Healing of Diseases and other Physical Ailments

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

1 Thessalonians 3
1 Wherefore when we could no longer forbear, we thought it good to be left at Athens alone;
2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.
4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

According to Paul the “messenger” was a thorn in the flesh. The Greek for flesh can be translated as the actual physical flesh or as being carnally minded. Most of us will agree that Paul was not likely carnally minded, so it is more likely that he suffered from some physical ailment.

The letter to the Thessalonians was written in approx. AD 51, and it this letter Paul explains that is unable to come himself because of “afflictions” that have been “appointed” to him. This is the same Paul of whom we read in Acts 19:
11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Is it necessary to know the nature of the “messenger of Satan,” since we haven’t been given that information in the Bible?

As brother Greg wrote:

Quote:
There are specific infirimities that I have which I know God has and still does use to make me rely on His strength not my own.


My testimony is the same. Sometime God heals and other times our “afflictions” remain.


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Hans Prang

 2005/12/10 11:36Profile
Warrior4Jah
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Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

Bro's (and sisters?)

Was just checking out the audio sermons and I saw this 'latest addition'

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=9370&commentView=itemComments]The Thorn in the Flesh by Keith Daniel[/url]

I haven't heard this message yet (have way to much which are on my 'to hear' list) but perhaps this is helpful! :-)


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Jonathan Veldhuis

 2005/12/11 9:44Profile
BeYeDoers
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Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

Check out the sermon "Redeemed from the curse of the Law" by Paris Reidhead. It sheds a lot of light on the idea of healing. I believe in MOST circumstances, God wants to heal. I think a study of Paul's "thorn in the flesh" will reveal that it is not a physical problem but a spiritual battle. Physical ailments resulting from preaching the gospel/persecution should be seen as a blessing and a humbling experience, and God may want to use it for His glory, and not heal you. Sickness many times is a result of sin and God wants to heal this if you confess (see James 5). As previously noted, Timothy obviously had stomach problems, and Paul didn't chastise him for lacking faith...many Word/Faith preachers would. Point being...i don't think TV preachers know God better than Paul. So yes God does want to heal by the broken body of Christ, but sometimes He obviously doesn't.

blessings


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Denver McDaniel

 2005/12/11 12:53Profile









 Re: Healing of Diseases and other Physical Ailments

BeYeDoers said

Quote:
I believe in MOST circumstances, God wants to heal. I think a study of Paul's "thorn in the flesh" will reveal that it is not a physical problem but a spiritual battle.

Good post! :-)

 2005/12/11 14:17





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