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 Re: Tacklebox

You got a lot to learn.......Michael Brown who was the theologian at Brownsville for a while, (now he heads the FIRE school of Revival) gave a message at Brownsville, "Holy Desperation", that the Holy Ghost used to literally rescue me a few times, when I needed my heart warmed by Christ's love........
(http://www.fireonthealtar.com/sermons/index.html)
were there excesses?....sure....there is always excess in revival.....and hand in hand with the excesses are the professional religionists who deride manifestations of God that occur outside their comfort zone.......

The more I read on this forum, the deeper I understand why John wanted to be on the other side of the Jordan, or why the Lord Jesus sought the solitary places to commune with the God Most High.

You're wrong sir,....there were many good people who ministered at Brownsville, and there were many many lost sheep who were saved during that move of God.

 2005/12/17 18:10
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Tacklebox

Quote:
The more I read on this forum, the deeper I understand why John wanted to be on the other side of the Jordan, or why the Lord Jesus sought the solitary places to commune with the God Most High.



Don't bite that hand that feeds... it will make the typing all the more difficult ;-) :-P


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/12/17 18:15Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

Toronto - NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!

But,

Their is much good fruit that came out of Brownsville, such as

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=1179&forum=35&start=30&viewmode=flat&order=1]FREEDOM CD! hear the gospel[/url] - this fruit is permantly tacked as the first thread when you go to the lounge section of this forum. Listen to these and see what you think.

* [url=http://www.icnministries.org/]Dr. Michael Brown[/url]

* Bob Gladstone

* Steve Hill

This is the good, I'm sure their is bad also - of that I'm not sure. I'm not an expert on the revival.


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/12/17 21:24Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:

Why is it that when I listen to some of the points that most {Discernment Ministries} speak about I often am in agreement with but, sense in my spirit that there is something radically wrong with the Discernment Ministry I'm listening to or reading? You can be a tale bearer and be telling the truth. You can dissemble with the lips and be telling the truth. You can slander and be telling the truth. Talebearing, dissembling with lips, and slander are of not of the Lord.

One time a few years ago, I was at a chapel and a believer was telling about the churches in his area. He told all kind of things that were going wrong. Everything he said I was in agreement with as far as it being wrong. Right after he left the chaplain said to me that that person who was complaining and finding fault needed Jesus in his life. As soon as I heard this I knew it was true. The man doing the complaining was needing to repent of the words that were coming out of his mouth. His real problem wasn't these other churches. It was his own heart.

Be very careful when you read or hear the message that discernment ministries speak. Most of what they speak is as bad or worse than the poison they are supposing to be uncovering. Obviously unscriptural behavior is not near as dangerous as the words these wells without water speak, because the leaven these people speak is hidden instead of being out in the open. Their message is self-righteous and lacks any word of love. These snakes divide the breathren and never cover a multitude of sin with love, but instead reveal everything. They rightly ridicule the prosperity message while they themselves live that way themselves.

If I don't watch myself I accept some of their speach and am in danger of becoming a two fold child of hell that they are, not having a Christ likeness but instead a critical spirit towards everyone that doesn't believe exactly the way I do.

In Christ,
GaryE


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2005/12/17 22:13Profile
tacklebox
Member



Joined: 2005/10/8
Posts: 196
Roanoke Rapids, NC

 Re:

So some good comes from it, and some people got saved, and some were brought closer to God. As Ravenhill likes to put it - SO WHAT!?
That doesn't make it a legitimate revival nor does it make it bulletproof to Biblical scrutiny.
The facts are still not being addressed. Throwing a blanket of "some good" over it doesn't cleanse it anymore than the unregenerate will stand clean before God with a few good works.
I think the overall impact of Brownsville has done more to damage the Kingdom of God than to further it.
Eve saw that the fruit was good, and I don't think she was deceived in that. It did appear to be pleasant and she actually thought some spiritual power would be gained from eating it. But in the end, the result wasn't being equal with God but separated from Him.
I stand on the words of Christ:

"A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." -Matt. 7:18

There is such a stench coming from this "revival" that I make no apologies for not being able to smell the perfume.


_________________
Christopher Wright

 2005/12/17 22:22Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:


Brother Christopher,

The same scriptures that you may use to defend your position against the Brownsville revival are often the same I would use when looking at the tare pulling discernment ministries. A good example is the verse Math. 7:18 that you used in your last post. Just what kind of fruit comes out of these discernment ministries? I think the words of these discernment ministries do more to damage the Kingdom Of God than to further it. That fruit Eve was looking at was a discernment ministry to me.

Discernment ministries are almost always: {no spirit, no power, no meat}, only precept for precept, line for line that they may go and fall backwards. Drunken priests who do a lot of bible but are spiritually ignorant who err at their tables of vomit. Babies, not weaned from milk.
...............................................

Isa 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

Isa 28:8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
...............................................

When God speaks with stammering lips and another tonge about the rest, these discernment ministries will not hear, but go about with their precepts upon precepts, line upon line. These lines and precepts are all from the bible yet when they hear a real Word from God they reject that Word and say it isn't for today.

Christopher, please don't take what I've written here to be personal towards you. I don't think this of you and in agreement with most of what you have said in your posts. Animal sounds, bar room laughter, jerking, gold dust, feathers, etc. are an offense to me also and there are fakes. At the same time, it is easy for me to see why many others have written what they have written.

In Christ,
GaryE


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Gary Eckenroth

 2005/12/18 0:34Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

Tacklebox,

I understand how you feel about this "Brownsville" thing, and I don't consider our current understandings of the issue to be a dividing or salvation issue. We are still brothers in Christ no matter what our current understanding is or isn't. With that being said, I would like to ask you if you have listened to the FREEDOM CD recording that have been deemed important and relevant by this site? What do you think of them? And lastly, do you think a good tree can bring forth good fruit and then become corrupt through the workings and corruption of man and then be cut down and cast into the fire? I think this is most likely what happened at Brownsville. The good fruit remains but the tree having become corrupt is gone, cut down and tossed into the fire. If this is the case - we should praise God for the good fruit - praise God for cutting down that which had become corrupt - concentrate on the good fruit and be thankful that the corruption is gone. This same thing may very well happen to other ministries we have come to respect at this point - in the near future things may change drastically and corruption may be exposed through the grace and judgment of God.


GaryE,

I also understand where you stand as far as so called discernment ministries. Even though I understand, I only agree with some but not all of what you are saying. Here is a post I made on another forum regarding the subject of discernment ministries. What do you think?

"One of the best ways to stand up against a false teacher and reach out to the deceived who follow him/her is to preach the true gospel. In this way the deceived are evangelized and the false teachers or wolves are put to public shame. There is no better way to expose error, deception and false teaching and no better way to kill a wolf or at least send him/her running for the hills then will the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the full council of God!

I also have some problems with most so called "discernment ministries" (not all but most - some are actually very good). Most focus exclusively on the negative, which is out of balance. Although we must expose false teachings and the wolves of our day we can't spend all of our time focusing on the negative and what is wrong - thus ignoring the truth. The best way to expose darkness is to shine a light into it. You want send the rats and roaches running for dear life just flick on the light. You want to fire a fatal shot at a wolf - hit him over the head with the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the full council of God - look at how Jeremiah, Isaiah and John the Baptist did it. Wolves hate the light and false teachers hate the Truth.

God knows what is going on and He will take care of it. But God uses men and women who are willing to serve him at all cost to take care of these thing and bring the truth to people who are in deception and bondage. God always has and always will use men and women who are sold out in this way to do His bidding. So, I would ask God first of all to help us get to the point were we are emptied and dead that he may use us in such a manner. And secondly that He would guide us on how, where and what He would have us do, so that we are operating not of our own flesh, but of the perfect will of God and His Spirit living in us. No one should run off half cocked, dripping in flesh, kicking down doors of churches and ranting like a maniac in order to expose false teachers. But God is and will raise up people who are dripping in humility and love to speak some of the harshest words and strongest messages against what we see going on today, while at the same time preaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Pray that God will raise you up as a Holy, meek and righteous warrior of the Truth in Love! Mat be Andrew would like to shed some light on this, but this is similar to what I think he means when he speaks of a "John the Baptist movement". There can and will be no "John the Baptist movement" if God does not raise up John the Baptists who are deeply concerned with the things they see happening today. Burning men in the desert on fire for God!"


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Patrick Ersig

 2005/12/18 1:27Profile
CyberCarbon
Member



Joined: 2005/12/16
Posts: 122


 Re:

I have just finished Azusa Street by Frank Bartleman; in the book, he describes how Satan attacks all true revivals with fakers, crooks, etc. He also WARNS it is necessary to trust in God and not even let a negative thought pass towards those who are enemies of the faith. The reason, the Holy Spirit is as gentle as a dove and is easily quenched and God is able to protect His Work.
Never judge a revival UNLESS YOU ARE THERE, you can not trust many newspapers or TV news to be favorable after all who do they serve? God only needs faith on our part. Read Azusa Street and start a revival right where you are, but beware it is a hard battle to fight, Satan hates revival and will use even your closes relatives and friends to urge you to give up on this crazy pursuit of God. However, what does the bible say? About the wise becoming fools and God, using the simple to expand His kingdom? After all the Greatest writer in the Bible could be Paul, the best educated, connected, great reputation with the powers that be, he had it all right? He considered it all garbage compared to knowing Jesus Christ.


_________________
David Michael Paul

 2005/12/18 8:44Profile
JesusIsLife
Member



Joined: 2005/11/18
Posts: 17
USA

 Re:

David was a man who danced befored the Lord.


_________________
Aaron

 2005/12/18 9:19Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Brownsville

Try plugging the word "Brownsville" or "Toronto" into the search engine on the main page.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/12/18 12:50Profile





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