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Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Can anyone please help?

There is a local “prosperity gospel”, “word of faith” church that some brothers feel the Lord has called them into to publicly confront the false teachers and prophet of that church. This church is big on titles (apostle, evangelist, prophet, bishop, reverend, pastor, etc.) pumped out from their own school of ministry. This church is huge on complete and utter submission to the leaders and the pastor of the church. (Surprise, Surprise) And lately (in anticipation of what's to come), all of the prophesies and sermons have been about utter submission to church leadership and touching not God’s anointed church leaders.

Can anyone give me any Scriptures that come to mind that I can pass on to these brothers or any sermons or articles that deal with this subject. Thank you all for your help. But most of all I would like to ask for your prayers to keep these brothers the in the perfect will of God, completely void of their own flesh, and for discernment and wisdom and knowledge in this area.


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Patrick Ersig

 2005/12/4 22:27Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3233
Texas

 Re: Can anyone please help?

Quote:

Christisking wrote:
Can anyone give me any Scriptures that come to mind that I can pass on to these brothers or any



Right off hand these come to mind.
Yes, God wants you to prosper in all that you do. "...Let the Lord be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of His servant." (Psalms 35: 27) Notice, God takes pleasure in your prosperity, not your poverty! Many have taught that God wants His people poor and downtrodden in this earth; at the mercy of the world's system all their lives; but folks that just is not the truth; In fact, it is a lie straight from Hell! 3 John 2 says that God wants us to prosper and be in health, even as our mind, will and emotions prosper, or are renewed to the Word. 2 Corinthians 8:9 says that through Jesus' poverty we were made to be rich. Isaiah 48:17 says that God will teach you how to profit. Indeed, the word in the Hebrew used here is, "lamad", which means, "goad, teach, give incentive." God would not teach you how to prosper, give you the incentive to prosper, and then turn around and say, "I really don't want you to prosper."


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Mr. Bill

 2005/12/4 22:35Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37181
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Brother,

You have to give them this short 20 min part of a sermon by david wilkerson:

[b]Another Gospel[/b] by David Wilkerson

Description: This is a very short excerpt from a message that Wilkerson preaches. The sound is a bit tinny but clearly heard. This message is one the should cause all of those who follow the modern day message known as the “Prosperity Gospel” to give pause to what they follow. And it should be considered a warning from a watchman to those who hear the message preached across this nation every day.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/12/4 22:42Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

MrBillPro,

Thank you for pointing this out. Sure God want us to prosper but prosperity is not material possessions and wealth. This is a lie from the pits of hell propagated by demonic soldiers of Satan like the Osteen and Meyers and sadly the many others who copy this sick demons of hell. But, I am not looking for Scriptures in objection to these types of prosperity teachers - I have plenty of Scripture to oppose that garbage and we all agree that these teachers are nothing more than demons disguised as ministers of righteousness, but thanks for showing how these truly evil men twist Scripture to their own liking. It is absolutely sickening!!! To read things like you wrote, even in jest, makes me want to literally puke!!!

What I am looking for more is Scriptures that would be in opposition to this utter submission to the false prophets and teachers who they call God’s anointed church leaders.


Greg,

I have heard that in the past and will listen to it again for it has been awhile. It would be a wonderful sermon to burn to CD to give to these brother to pass out. Are there any Scriptures or sermons or articles you know of that deal with this utter submission to the false prophets and teachers who they call God’s anointed church leaders


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Patrick Ersig

 2005/12/4 23:12Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3233
Texas

 Re:

Sorry I did not answer you question with the scriptures you were looking for but I am sure if you look hard enought you can find scriptures that fits what your looking for. As for as pointing out ministers that preach prosperity I will let God deal with them because if I am wrong and God "does" have them there for a reason he would probably be happier with me if I keep my mouth shut and do not Judge them before man, but this is just the way I feel and done good with this attitude so for there are plenty of folks out there can talk about them and I will let those folks do all the talking, My personal relationship with God is to precious to me to go there. :-)


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Mr. Bill

 2005/12/4 23:23Profile









 Re: Can anyone please help?

Hi Patrick,

Matthew 23:1 - 12 is totally explicit on the point of loving to be 'called' some important title.


On submission, without doubt, Ephesians 5:21, is a point which RonB touched on in an article about church leadership. (Do you remember there were two threads recently which drew comments on forms of leadership? The first longer thread started off on places of worship, the other, on leaders themselves. Sorry I don't have time to hunt right now. I know KingJimmy started the one on church leadership.)

This verse, has to be taken in context with the other exhortations about the extra responsibility God puts on those who teach. In other words, double honour is our response to an elder who is so submitted to God, that His authority is manifest and draws our submissive response.

1 Timothy 5:17 (KJV)
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

There are two Stephen Kaung sermons on SI, on 'Authority', which are very good. The point they make is, that Jesus was given all authority because He was utterly obedient - [u]to the cross[/u]. It is His [u]submission to GOD[/u], in other words, which qualifies him to ask others to submit.

This is exemplified in Matthew 8:5 - 13. I read it in the KJV .... note what Jesus says will happen to the 'children of the kingdom'?

 2005/12/4 23:30
Roxi
Member



Joined: 2003/6/29
Posts: 39
Tallahassee, Florida

 Re:

To be honest, the first messages that popped into my mind is "Run for your life", and "Another Jesus". I think they are both by Carter Conlon.
I will certainly be praying for your friends, that the Lord will prepare them for battle. "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm." Ephesians 6:12-13

Just a couple scripture verses that come to mind also:
1Thessalonians 5:2-3
Matthew 7:15
Proverb 19:1
Matthew 16:24-27
Mark 10:17-27
Deuteronomy 13:1-5

I hope this is helpful :o)

Tiffanie


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Tiffanie

 2005/12/4 23:42Profile
Melissa
Member



Joined: 2004/2/13
Posts: 8
Virginia

 Re: Can anyone please help?

There is also a message that David Wilkerson delivered in August called "The Great and Final Seperation." He really hits the nail on the head and exposes these false teachings and stresses the fact that our time is running short and we must chose to obey the truth NOW!

Lord, I pray that you would expose the lies of these workers of iniquity and the eyes of the people would be opened to discern between the holy and the profane. You have a body...bring them out from among the altars of baal that they would be separated unto you. May your true church walk before you, blameless, and with the power of Christ. May we work while it is light, for the Day of the Lord is drawing near.

Hope this helps.
http://www.timessquarechurch.org/sermons/sermons2005.htm

 2005/12/4 23:43Profile
Melissa
Member



Joined: 2004/2/13
Posts: 8
Virginia

 Re:

p.s. on the same link as my last post there is also a message on the topic of godly authority by Carter Conlon. It is called "The Purpose and Limits of Authority" and it is part 2 of a 3 part series.

And another one from David Wilkerson, preached at the "Call To Repentance" conference in 1986.

Two Ministries Two Priesthoods
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1556

These are both presentations of the true ministers/shepherds of Jesus Christ.

 2005/12/5 0:31Profile
saved_matt
Member



Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England

 Re: Can anyone please help?

I would reccomned they listen to 3 sermons recently preached by Carter Conlon (Head Pastor of Times Square Church in New York that was founded by David Wilkerson, for those who dont know)

They are on Spiritual authority and can be found here:[url=http://www.timessquarechurch.org/sermons/sermons2005.htm]Times Square Church Sermons - 2005 [/url]
they're called:

Part 1: What is Aaron that You Murmur Against Him? on 23rd Oct 2005
Part 2: The Purpose and Limits of Authority, on 1st Nov 2005
Part 3: The Greatest Faith in Israel on 6th Nov 05

I would espescially recommend the second one for your friends as it talks about the difference between righteous and unrighteous authority and how to detect if you are under unrighteous authority and what to do about it.

God bless

matt


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matt

 2005/12/5 3:10Profile





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