SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Woe to the shepherds

Print Thread (PDF)


Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Woe to the shepherds

Timing is always interesting...

Just logged off and a quick check of the email produced...
[url=]The Church Leader as Coach[/url]

The problem being that the body of the email promoting this came from Sermon Search which generally has decent recommends for the most part, frankly tend to skim over much things like this to be honest. (Adding here, maybe I should be paying more careful attention, going back through these seems a noticeable drift)

What grabbed the attention was:

[i]"Learn the elements that will drive the church leaders in your organization to peak performance. PLUS, learn how you can be an effective coach on a daily basis."[/i]

So what is the problem?

My suspicions are a couple of things:

One, that those of us holding to a whole counsel of the things of the Lord are going to become more and more negated and drowned out by this as it progress's. That a dividing line will be drawn not dissimilar to many of our politics; "For\against".

We will be seen as curmudgeons who don't know anything of the joy of the Lord which though a misnomer will become the crown we wear and an additional cross to bare. The sense of "Who cares what they think" could be just as much a propensity towards pride and a solidifying of 'position'. That in itself though is one that still must be held to a certain extent, that I just pray is on the level of spirit and truth.

I just believe that this is only going to grow worse and more subtle and sinister. Recalling that a counterfeit isn't something that is obvious but very 'close' to the original. The tense of paying close attention is richly developed in;

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Searched for an adequate commentary here, but the gist of it seems to be that the delusion is one so strong and deceiving that though it is impossible ultimately, it seems to describe the opposite effect, that many will be led astray and the conviction a corollary one, that it will be those holding to all the truth of the Lord will be the poor souls that just don't understand.

It is not entirely surprising that sin, repentance, Gods glory are being rapidly replaced with a new 'gospel' of "joy", "purpose," "enlightenment", "prosperity" all the trappings that were reduced in a word by the Lord Himself,

"[i]And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night [b]thy soul shall be required of thee[/b]: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God[/i]".
Luk 12:18-21

but that the countering considerations have been silenced by and large. That to speak against these things while the church is simaltaneously embracing them... Maybe it's just "brace yourself" it's only going to get worse.

It seems to be upon us, more and more everyday. Already those that ought to know better are being led down this slippery slope.

"[i]This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, [b]lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.[/b][/i] 2Ti 3:1-7

Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

Jer 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
Jer 23:18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?

Mike Balog

 2005/12/4 15:18Profile

Joined: 2005/10/3
Posts: 117
Gonzales, La

 Re: Woe to the shepherds

As the Founder and CEO of Sandra Steen & Associates, Inc., an internationally acclaimed speaking, training and consulting firm now entering its 12th year, Sandra is established as a powerful expert in the areas of Inspiration and Motivation, Sales and Customer Service, Communication and Leadership and Diversity in the workplace. & Sandra is the recipient of various accolades and awards for outstanding contributions in corporate America including:

* Entrepreneurial Spirit Award
* Women of Enterprise Award
* Finalist: Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year

* Texas Woman to Watch
* International Firm of the Year
* African American Business Professional Service Award

This is a good way to promote Christianity, Christ as Lord, etc.....?
Sounds more like the validation of some secular business.

As a christian I stay away from these self propelled so-called ministries. They promote themselves as christian but are in actuality very secular / worldly.

Mike Androne

 2005/12/4 15:56Profile

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Woe to the shepherds

'Grievous' seems to sum it up. So much mixture in the church, the earthly with the heavenly. To be honest, at times I don't know how to pray; sometimes being tempted to just ask the Lord to judge it all quickly and then being reminded of Abraham interceding for Sodom..."peradventure there be fifty righteous...".

I am reminded of an awesome sermon by Art Katz called [url=]Be Ye Perfect[/url]. In it he lays out how good things-or so they seem-can be the enemy of that which is perfect. Things conceived in human wisdom, no matter how good they appear, hinder the perfect will of God and His wisdom. I think the problem we face today is that we aren't willing to wait on God for His wisdom in His timing and we aren't willing to bear the reproach of Christ, suffering outside the gate. So we take the easy way out, man's way.

By the way, take heed if you listen to that sermon, you will either be changed or hardened.

In Christ,


Ron Halverson

 2005/12/4 18:18Profile

Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490


Amen, good advice.

There's a huge mix of the psychological world with the Christian creating a mix referred to as psychoheresy. It couches the gospel in terms of what I can get out of it. There's no cross, no dying of self. It's very dangerous...

If Jesus is not the head of your local church, then don't have anything to do with it.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Ed Pugh

 2005/12/4 18:20Profile

Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy