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 A dangerous faith


In the New Yorker Symour Hersh reports on President Bush's quotes about his faith and the Iraq war. Here's some excerpts for you:

After the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the former official said, he was told that Bush felt that “God put me here” to deal with the war on terror. The President’s belief was fortified by the Republican sweep in the 2002 congressional elections; Bush saw the victory as a purposeful message from God that “he’s the man,” the former official said. Publicly, Bush depicted his reëlection as a referendum on the war; privately, he spoke of it as another manifestation of divine purpose.

“The President is more determined than ever to stay the course,” the former defense official said. “He doesn’t feel any pain. Bush is a believer in the adage ‘People may suffer and die, but the Church advances.’ ” He said that the President had become more detached, leaving more issues to Karl Rove and Vice-President Cheney. “They keep him in the gray world of religious idealism, where he wants to be anyway,” the former defense official said.

This kind of "faith" is murdering thousands of men women and children in Iraq, emptying the coffers of the US, and wasting the lives of our men in uniform. It is a travesty brought on by a deluded "Christian" who believes God is speaking to him and has placed him in the White House for devine purposes. How can American Christians continue to support this evil madness?

Bubbaguy

 2005/12/2 11:33
Onfire
Member



Joined: 2005/11/20
Posts: 49


 Re: A dangerous faith

Bubba you're right it is dangerous. It seems that so many "Christians" only care that a person calls him/herself a Christian. They don't care what the fruit that comes out of that person looks like.

The Prince of Peace never said love your enemy with a bomb.

 2005/12/2 11:39Profile
clownstruth
Member



Joined: 2005/12/3
Posts: 8


 Re: A dangerous faith

I'm amazed at the fact that if there's an opening to attack our president, it's been used.

Or the fact that defending our country is classified as "murdering thousands", bubbaguy? Once upon a time a country could stand up for itself, and could work to free an enslaved people, and it's countrymen were willing to sacrifice to better the lives of some, to give life to some.

I'll say that I agree with Bush wholeheartedly. I know the history of Islam, and it's a bloodthirtsy religion from the start. Do you know the prophecies about Ishmael? "His hand will be against every nation, and every nation will have its hand against him." This will never end as long as the Devil has his false religions, and some who call themselves Christians are sympathetic to those lies.

 2005/12/3 10:41Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi clownstruth...!

I agree. I recently completed my graduate thesis on U.S. Foreign Relations in the Middle East (particularly with Iran). The more that I researched, the more I realized that the Middle East changed tremendously over the past 60 years, from secular states to completely oppressive fundamentalist states. Christians in most of those nations are now persecuted beyond belief. It upsets me to see "armchair prophets" and "armchair generals" use their freedom to criticize the method (war) that actually made this nation free to provide them such rights in the first place. I also get upset when I see believers that don't know President Bush personally go so far as to vocally doubt his salvation.

My uncle served in Iraq for a couple of years. His job was to destroy all of the illegal weapons that Iraq had amassed over the years following the First Gulf War. Most of these weapons were purchased from the French, Germans and Russians (hence, their opposition). And the testing of these weapons was often upon the southern Shi'ites, or more often, the northern Kurds. Saddam Hussein's administration was gathering an incredible stockpile of weapons illegally. He was also paying the families of suicide bombers in Israel. He orchestrated an assassignation attempt upon former President Bush in 1993. And don't forget that he has a track record for obtaining, using, and attempting to obtain WMDs. Hussein was a ruthless tyrant who, given the opportunity, would make Osama bin Laden look like a dove.

Unfortunately, my uncle's two best friends were killed when their armoured humvee was attacked (my uncle survived with only minor wounds). My uncle is now more supportive of this cause than ever before. However, he is upset that the liberal media in the U.S. continues to paint the situation with a slanted bias. Support for the U.S. operation is growing in Iraq. Most of Iraq is actually quite peaceful. There are just a relatively small number of fundamentalist insurgents that attempt to make every opportunity to insight violence. While there have been slightly over 2100 Americans killed, nearly 700 of those deaths were the result of accidents. Thus, the American death toll in Iraq is surprisingly low (especially when compared with other military operations). The Iraqi death toll is also very low when compared with other historical war operations. Of course, this would probably not be portrayed by a media that so obviously leans to the left. It doesn't make for good television. So instead, the media focuses on the bad.

There are many people in Iraq that are very happy with the role of the United States in this situation. My uncle told me how Christians (as well as other minority groups) are very pleased at the prospect of greater liberty.

And it would be interesting to note that, historically, such military intervention has been useful. As an American, I am very glad that the French "interfered" in the American Revolution (although I still love the British).

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2005/12/3 11:02Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: A dangerous faith

Quote:
I also get upset when I see believers that don't know President Bush personally go so far as to vocally doubt his salvation.



That ought to go beyond the President as well.

There are so many factors to consider it is more surprising that an article here and another there has all the answers and all the facts and can tell us [i]ipso facto[/i] "Yes, I have climbed inside the mind of George Bush (anyone for that matter) and this is what he is thinking" It's absurd and that Christians want to consider these things as 'truth' regardless of where ones 'loyalties' lie (curious enough on it's own) but that they will welcome unregenerate men to postulate and accept their particular opinions.

It's a stinking war and where this idea ever came about that it is supposed to be pretty or started in the first place, or that 'we' ought to cut and run now and let the insurgents think they have defeated the US... another 911 style atrocity happens and the pundits are back out playing amateur general once again.... The media couldn't care less about anything other than it's continued propagation and that Christians get so bound up in this mess of half-truths (or less) from [i]either[/i] 'side'... I don't 'support' the war and I don't 'not support' it. It's neither, it just is.

There is a 'war' that's not even being fought, that has claimed untold millions and gets no attention whatsoever unless you try and deprive the so called 'rights' of those who wish to kill there yet unborn children...

This worlds head is screwed on backwords and then some...

Edit: There are soliders on this front that I would be remiss not to address: [url=http://www.lifeandlibertyministries.com/]http://www.lifeandlibertyministries.com/[/url]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/12/3 13:28Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
My uncle served in Iraq for a couple of years. His job was to destroy all of the illegal weapons that Iraq had amassed over the years following the First Gulf War. Most of these weapons were purchased from the French, Germans and Russians (hence, their opposition). And the testing of these weapons was often upon the southern Shi'ites, or more often, the northern Kurds. Saddam Hussein's administration was gathering an incredible stockpile of weapons illegally. He was also paying the families of suicide bombers in Israel. He orchestrated an assassignation attempt upon former President Bush in 1993. And don't forget that he has a track record for obtaining, using, and attempting to obtain WMDs. Hussein was a ruthless tyrant who, given the opportunity, would make Osama bin Laden look like a dove.



ccchhhrrriiisss,

Haven't you heard? We've revised this history. Hussein is now the good guy...and the President is now the ruthless tyrant...as well as a religous crusader who tortures freedom fighters, and pirates their oil booty.

In America this war has become a contest of conflicting narritives. We are fighting a much more genteel form of combat...one of influence and agenda. It reminds me of the images of ancient Rome where the petty senators faught over troops and lands. Yet these petty men...like children with ant farms, are influencing the lives of millions of people.

Now what do we say to these naughty demi-gods? Well, clean up your mess! Do not leave Iraq broken and vunerable to Iran or whoever else will sieze upon an unstable government. (And then get out.)

And I wish the Democrats would stop lying about their participation in this affair. This isn't Bushes war. House and senate leaders were all very vocal and populist on the record about removing Saddam by force. Clearly the left knows how to "decieve the American public"...all their hopes for gaining the White House are pinned on American disaster and failure. Talk about an immoral conflict of interest...Democrats seem mandated to criticize all things American, regardless of the actual merit. Where is the substance in that stategy? If they really want fidiciary power, then they should architect some realistic solutions with courage instead of this politicaly spineless revisionism and blame.


MC

Last thought...thinking of Mike's comment and observation,
Quote:
There are soliders on this front that I would be remiss not to address:




_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/12/3 14:33Profile









 Re: A dangerous faith

Quote:
Haven't you heard? We've revised this history.

Isn't the old word for this 'propoganda'?

Hasn't every nation played this game during some war or other?

 2005/12/3 14:55
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
propaganda...Hasn't every nation played this game during some war or other?



Sadly so Dorcas. Maybe I'm just slow to the party, but lately it feels that this is all politicians do.

Where are the lions of modern history? Where are those thoroughbreds of conviction in the face of unpopularity like Lincoln, the pillars of ideals in the face of disillusionment like Roosevelt, or those relentless bulldogs in the face of adversity like Churchill?

It seems the only leaders being bred today are pish posh poodles and wily waggish weasels in business suits.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/12/3 16:13Profile









 Re: A dangerous faith

Quote:
Where are those thoroughbreds of conviction in the [u]face[/u] of [b]unpopularity[/b] like Lincoln

MC,

I don't think there's a politician alive who isn't aware of his need for popularity with the majority.

Reminds me of King Saul's excuse for not doing what Samuel told him (God's will, that is.).... and so should we be surprised we (Christians) are not finding godliness in our leaders? I don't think so..... :-(

 2005/12/4 3:12









 Re:

Clownstruth says that we are "defending our country" in Iraq. The truth is that we invaded Iraq in order to break up the OPEC cartel and gain control of the second largest reserves of oil in the world. Here some info.

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=471&row=0

The fact is that Saddam is in power because of George Bush's father, former head of the CIA. They gave Saddam large amounts of military support in the war against Iran. Saddam wouldn't have been in power if it wasn't for the US. We wasted billions of dollars and many thousands of lives putting him into power and keeping him there and now we waste billions deposing him.

In China many people are persecued unjustly, but you don't hear people say we should invade in order to free them, do you?

The fact is that war is evil and against everything that Christ stands for. LOVE your enemies. Pray for those that curse you. There is ALWAYS an alternative to fighting with outward weapons.

Bubbaguy

 2005/12/5 9:25





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