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mshelby
Member



Joined: 2004/8/18
Posts: 15


 Sermons for sale?

Here's a link for an interesting [url=http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor57.htm]article[/url]!


Here's the text that went along with the "google search" blurb. I can't wait to see some of your opinions on this one...

[b]Paul Proctor -- Sermons For Sale[/b]
[url=http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor57.htm]Paul Proctor's article[/url][i]"And, here’s the great thing about Bill Hybels' "sermon specials;" they are all “field tested” to assure each pastoral purchaser is getting the best message ..."[/i]

I cant wait to see some of your feedback on this one!


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Mark Shelby

 2005/12/1 10:11Profile
groh_frog
Member



Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re: Sermons for sale?

What's that quote? Ravenhill said that "many of today's preachers are meerly teachers."

I'll say that I've taught using what I've learned from different people- often using the same examples, or what-not. In reference to the pastor who resigned for stealing sermons, I understand getting inspiration from others' work, but not with stealing a verbatum sermon. Now this idea of selling sermons- selling God's word...

Another part that caught my eye was the fact that these were being sold from saddleback. So, if you want a watered-down, feel good, non-denominational sermon, look no further. As long as you have the cash, you don't need the Spirit! What ever happened to leaning on God? It would be nice of those leading our Churches knew how to do that. Once upon a time, it was considered a requirement, not just a bonus in a pastor.

Grace and Peace...

 2005/12/1 10:40Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37186
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
Isn’t it comforting to know that the man of God doesn’t have to “labor in the Word and doctrine” anymore or pray and wait patiently for divine guidance, wisdom, insight and instruction? Thanks to Warren and Hybels, a smorgasbord of satisfying sermons is just a click away!


Good article! surely this is a sad result of technology and easy believism christianity is that we don't need to walk anymore with God we can just use resources and have a guise of spiritual things to get by in churches.

Yes dear brother we don't merely need teachers but [b]preachers[/b]!! who KNOW and WALK with God.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/12/1 14:25Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

That there is a market for pre-cooked microwave sermons is clear evidence that many pastors are too busy to seek the Lord for His word. Think of what that implies to the "laymen"...if people who are paid to be Christians don't have time to study the bible, then why expect more from the average Joe who has a full time job?

Brethren, it sometimes seems that churches are becoming irrelevant to the Church. These are sad days for the hungry and thirsty.

MC




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Mike Compton

 2005/12/1 14:40Profile
habakkuk3
Member



Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

Good points made by all. I can't really add anything, other than to say this is why folks react strongly when they hear a message that calls to repentance. In America, most church-goers are never regularly confronted about their sin. These are sad times indeed.

As to Paul Proctor, he's a wonderful brother in the Lord and if you'll email him, he'll add you to his mailing list. His newsletter is one of the few things I continue to read, other than the Bible directly.


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Ed Pugh

 2005/12/1 15:16Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470
Mississippi

 Re: Sermons for sale?

Very interesting site. I loved it. Paul Proctor has a fresh way of explaining important issues.

Now about preachers stealing another's sermon....if I recall early church history, the church leaders would read the letters written by the apostles to their congregations when they met. Never heard that this was considered unethical....maybe too many preachers are too egotisical...if they are led by the Holy Spirit they do not own any sermons. On the other hand, if a guy cannot speak from his own heart and experience he should be retired or defrocked.

Just my opinion...

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2005/12/1 19:16Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi ginnyrose...

Quote:
Now about preachers stealing another's sermon....if I recall early church history, the church leaders would read the letters written by the apostles to their congregations when they met.

Interesting. In fact, I have attended a Church or two that I would have [u]preferred[/u] for the pastor to have "borrowed" a sermon or two from someone like Leonard Ravenhill or David Wilkerson. Instead, we were continually fed modern, ecclesiastic, artificial (and often, [i]unhealthy[/i]) baby food.

:-?


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Christopher

 2005/12/1 21:45Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: Sermons for sale?

Yes the early church leaders read letters from the Apostles. We should do likewise and be reading those same letters today! ;-)

Also, I agree there is a place for preserving the great sermons of men like Wesley, Whitefield, and Edwards ect. for study and even emulation. Yet certainly these compositions aren’t to be dusted off and performed like a piano sonata or violin concerto. Music may work well that way, but why take the pulpit if you have no theme in your own heart to offer?

The prerequisite that the Word of God be spoken in our churches is one reason why I am losing confidence in the single pastor model for church leadership. It is simply unfair to the people (and to the pastor himself) to position one voice as the sole conduit for God's word in the congregation. Let’s face it; even pastors can go through a dry season in their Christian walks. When it comes to bandwidth of sound preaching, a plurality of elders seems a better structure to ensure that those who labor do not grow weary.

We can do without about 99% of the stuff we call church these days…the Word of God is that 1% we need more of. Maybe I’m wrong…I try to appreciate many forms and expressions of church. Yet if preachers aren’t alive enough to speak from their own hearts, not with eloquence but with reality, then why are they behind the microphone?

This is my problem with the Emergent movement. It isn't the Gregorian chants, the icons, the drum circles, or the candles…it is that emergent pastors replace the primacy and authority of God’s word with confidence in cultural exegesis. Equally empty-hearted are those evangelical pastors who think they can perform dynamic sermon recitals on Sunday, saving their strength for other entrepreneurial pursuits throughout the week.

I try not to be a negative or critical voice towards pastors…but this is begging the issue. With all of these “aids and resources” it’s getting so that one doesn’t even have to be born again to preach in our churches… Think about that for a second.

MC


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Mike Compton

 2005/12/1 23:01Profile
Warrior4Jah
Member



Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

I agree, tho the definition for a 'teacher' in the Bible is probably not one who only repeats what others say having no living relationship with God himself. :-)


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Jonathan Veldhuis

 2005/12/2 6:42Profile
Laineye
Member



Joined: 2005/11/11
Posts: 26
belfast, Nothern Ireland

 Re:

I posted this in Quotes 5 thread but I think that the truth of it is relevant to your discussion.

"All is takes to make a preacher is a sermon - but it takes an altar to make a man of God"
B.H. clendennen

Jeremiah 12:10-11
Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
They have made it desolate, [and being] desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth [it] to heart.


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Elaine

 2005/12/2 7:48Profile





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