Ok, an earlier thread has me thinking about modesty in dress and the destruction of feminine virtue. I have also been thinking on how this has altered Western culture.There are two passages in the NT that deal with the issue of modest in 1 Timothy and 1 Peter.In addressing Men and women in the context of prayer in 1 Timothy 2 -- Paul says this:
1 Timothy 2:8-10 8Therefore (A)I want the men (B)in every place to pray, (C)lifting up (D)holy hands, without wrath and dissension.Women Instructed 9Likewise, I want (E)women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.
1 Peter 3:3-5 3(D)Your adornment must not be merely external--braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; 4but let it be (E)the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. 5For in this way in former times the holy women also, (F)who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves
_________________Ed Raby
Please read two points from "HOW TO PREACH INEFFECTIVELY" by Charles Finney [b]o Don't rebuke the worldly tendencies of believers, especially in their dress, lest they get offended and feel uncomfortable. o Above all, be especially careful not to hurt the feelings of anyone. Make it your great aim to please your hearers and to make them pleased with, you as well.[/b] Follow the above principles, and you will be a first - class servant of Satan. "If I seek to please men I cannot be the servant of Christ" - Gal. 1:10Pastor. Sir_Edward, I appreciate your boldness to stand as a counter-cultural man for the sake of God's truth without legalistic spirit. In Him,Shibu
_________________Shibu Clement
shibu,
Pastor. Sir_Edward, I appreciate your boldness to stand as a counter-cultural man for the sake of God's truth without legalistic spirit.
There's two awesome books that touch on this subject, but in more of a way than just talking about the outward adornment and actions. They're called "Wild at Heart" and "Captivating", by John and Stasi Eldredge. Description: Hungry for a dash of daring in your marriage? Eldredge serves up a provocative look at gender roles. He challenges men to abstain from passivity, be fortified by their God-given dreams, and walk the road least taken; and encourages women to recover their feminine power, freedom, and beauty. I haven't read "Captivating" (it's for women), but my wife has. I guess it's a great book talking about women- and so much more than outward adornment alone. It's all about what's inside the heart...Anyway, I'd reccomend this to anybody who wants to look deeper at what the roles of men in women really are.Grace and Peace...
Sir Edward, you said it perfectly! I am so thankful you shared this info. You did it better then I did!As I ponder the Reformation, the period of time when bold young men stood up to the status quo, I wonder what would happen if young men today would get bold and speak up, what would happen? You hear the cry for revival on this forum, but how many would care to touch the issues you just mentioned, Bro. Edward? Is it not ironical that while the western churches are backing off from telling women how they need to become more humble, submissive, the Moslems are making fast headways in recruiting American women into their ranks where they are subject to far more limitations and dress far more radical then any Christian women, including the Amish! Females chafe at the restrictions placed on them, thinking it it far too restrictive, citing some of the OT laws. I am very fascinated by the OT laws concerning women after birthing a child. They were declared unclean for a period of time, depending on the gender of the child. When you read this law, how it would be lived out in everyday life, I am struck with awe and wonder at the Creator God who so loved and cared for women that He went so far as to make it a religious law to restrict womens' movements. She was very liminted in what she was allowed to do right after the birth of her child. These laws meant she was to bond with her child, care for her body so it can heal, so she can regain her strength and have more children in the future. I also suspect it protected her from health problems in later years. Methinks women could learn from these OT laws and if they would understand the underlying principles they would be healthier and happier! This, obviously, is my opinion!Keep it up, Sir Edward. ginnyrose
_________________Sandra Miller
Great thread.
It is sad day for us in the church -- because we are afraid to preach these passages in this light for fear
Ginny,Yes it seems that females in western culture chaff at Biblical restirctions never realizing that much of what God did was to protect women.One of my favorites is in the case of an unwed mother or fornication, the man was REQUIRED to marry the girl and loses all options for divorce. I wonder how much that caused men to keep control of themselves ;-). (note: In our society there are no controls at all so men act like dogs -- it seems that this protection runs both ways) It prevented the mother from being both unwed and unsupported. Now we could argue that it still wouldn't stop the man from fooling around later, but the law against adultry was pretty stiff in its penalty too -- DEATH. Simply put --there was no unwed mothers in Jewish society when the law was followed. Widows maybe (But even they had rules that protected them as is seen in the story of Ruth)but no unwed mothers. If there were, it was only because they would not reveal who the father was.Another is the laws concerning female cleaness. If followed they actually produce less infections for women. The point is that God really is looking out for owmen with a lot of the rules and setting up a balanced playing field for intersex relationships to take place with them. The problem is how to present these things in church without causing a stir.Blessings.
Sir Edward....(or shall I say Eddie)...that was a great word....my prayer is that you either HAVE or WILL deliver it in a sermon, and that it touches the heart of many of God's children in this 21st century...in Jesus' Name, amen.
Sir Edward, I have a suggestion on how to teach these principles in your brotherhood: Solicit the help of your wife and let her teach the women. In the meantime, you teach the men! Now I have it all figured out for you! Sounds easy, doesn't it!! :-) ginnyrose
Here is short clip (4min.) of Dr. Michael Brown giving a teaching on this subject.[url=http://www.thesearchforbiblicaltruth.org/don_t_give_in_to_the_pressure.wma]FOR THE GIRLS - Don't Give Into The Pressure!!![/url]
_________________Patrick Ersig