SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics : TODAY'S "UNSAVED" CHURCH

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
PosterThread
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

Quote:

“'How can one call oneself Spirit filled not be burdened with the lost and passion for holiness'.

A better question for me is how many people are actually Spirit filled believers? Not many me thinks.”

Well said - I agree - questioned 3. is much better when rephrased in this way. I do think though that people can be convicted and burdened by the Holy Spirit and quickly shut the Holy Spirit out and refuse to listen when the hard things are asked or the ugly things are brought to light. They look for some one to pet their head or tickle their ears and quench the conviction and power of Holy Spirit. Thus the power of the Holy Spirit in their lives is diminished and eventually fads away into nothingness. On the other hand some people can become broken and humbled and fall to their face in repentance when these hard things (take up your cross, forsake all, die to self, sell all you have, etc.) or ugly things are brought to light and repent and strive out of love for Jesus to walk more holy and live more righteous and do the harder things we are asked to do. This results in the Holy Spirit growing and becoming more powerful in our lives. What do think? Is this how it works in many cases?

Quote:

“Len Ravenhill said something like "God will judge America or He'll have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah!"

And their blood will be on our hands.”

I agree and have been trying to get this point across in the forum for many months. Their (the unsaved church) blood will be on our hands. Not just the lost that we may turn our back on and ignore, but the “seekers” at the mega church down the road or the “word of faith” people commanding God to give them the money on the other side of town and the corner community church christians who are being sold a humanistic, sloppy agape, free grace, sin your way to heaven message and this is all they have ever heard. For many who think they are christians all they have ever heard is a false gospel and a false Jesus and they think it is the real thing. Having been shown the truth, these peoples blood will be on our hands if we don’t reach out to them and stand up against the pastors and teachers who are lying to them.

Quote:

“I don't think that Andrew Strom's point is that God is going to raise up just one, single "John the Baptist," but rather, that He is raising up an army of them. These are the true Spirit-filled believers; those who have been baptized in the Holy Ghost and fire!”

I think you a right - may their be some here on this forum and some who read this post who cry out to God and are being prepared for this purpose as they read this? I hope and pray so?

Quote:

“I have been crying out for God to baptize me in the Holy Ghost and raise me (and others) up as examples to this generation of what true Christianity really is. The greatest need of our time is for true examples of Christianity.”

This is my prayer also brother. May their be many, many, many more who make this their pray and their hearts cry!!!


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/11/22 15:22Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
Canada

Online!
 Re:

Brother Patrick I will try and answer the questions you posed:

Quote:
1. Do you not consider this a crisis hour in America right now?


Yes. I believe personally myself, in england, canada and america it is an hour of desperation and urgency. We need to realize that this is not the time to play games with religion. It is time to go [b]all[/b] out and hold nothing back. We need to be overcomers and strive against sin and seek after holiness of life. I would even say as Ravenhill said its not an crisis hour but an crisis minute, we are nearing the end its time now to repent.

Quote:
2. How much worse do you think it can get, how more corrupt could the church become?


I think it can even become more corrupt. We are just beginning to see how bad it can get when we resist the Holy Spirit of God. Sadly some of the most corrupt parts of the church are those that proclaim the deeper christian life and baptism in the Holy Ghost.

Quote:
3. Don’t you think that the vast majority of Spirit filled Christians have already shut out the burden of the Holy Spirit to live uncompromising lives?


I believe that Spirit believers have not done this with their choice but rather being ignorant of the level and standard of the normal christian life being a life of holiness and purity in God.

Quote:
I have been crying out for God to baptize me in the Holy Ghost and raise me (and others) up as examples to this generation of what true Christianity really is. The greatest need of our time is for true examples of Christianity.


Amen brother may we all join in with your earnest desire and prayers! Lord baptize us with your sufficency not for "power for our programs" but for your glory alone. Make us more like Christ, give us Christ-likeness; the fruits of the Spirit.

These are some great comments and burdens of the heart being laid bare brothers! I believe the best outlet for all of this is prayer. God willing I am going to be starting an [b]prayer meeting intiative[/b] to have brothers and sisters on SI to start prayer groups in their churches, homes, etc for the purpose of praying for genuine revival.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/11/22 16:11Profile
deathdancer
Member



Joined: 2005/11/19
Posts: 33
South Africa

 Re:

Hi...Yes the church is in a sorry state.A spiritual vacuum has been created and is filled with all types of false prophets and gimmics. I do take heart in the fact that for thousands of years the chuch has been assulted by many things and yet the remnant remains, unshakeable and steadfast. Howcome I can read the churh fathers and my spirit leaps out with them in joy.Ha.ha..preserved by God. Satan is a lost cause and will forever remain so. cheers.


_________________
Trevor Collins

 2005/11/22 16:22Profile
habakkuk3
Member



Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

Quote:
would even say as Ravenhill said its not an crisis hour but an crisis minute, we are nearing the end its time now to repent.


Amen Brother Greg, this is the crisis hour. I pray that the Holy Spirit opens our eyes to see the day we're living in.

I heard a sermon from Pastor Wilkerson a few months ago and he said something to the effect that "we're on grace time."

This was back in May I believe. Around that time my wife had a vision and all she saw was a big clock and the clock had stopped. I prayed about this for a couple of weeks and then I ran into an article stating that Big Ben had stopped for around 90 minutes or so back in May.

The Lord told me that judgment was due but God was holding it back for a short season due to his mercy. (I'm a bit uncomfortable with prophetic utterances but please take it to the Lord in prayer.)


_________________
Ed Pugh

 2005/11/22 16:48Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
Canada

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
The Lord told me that judgment was due but God was holding it back for a short season due to his mercy. (I'm a bit uncomfortable with prophetic utterances but please take it to the Lord in prayer.)


I shudder as you read your words dear brother. Lord sober us up for this hour, let us not sleep but "watch and pray". Let us keep the commandment of 1 John 2:28.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/11/22 17:02Profile
martymill
Member



Joined: 2005/10/17
Posts: 48
Montreal, Canada

 Re:

[size=xx-small]"God willing I am going to be starting an prayer meeting intiative to have brothers and sisters on SI to start prayer groups in their churches, homes, etc for the purpose of praying for genuine revival."[/size]

[size=small]Count me in brother. I think thats a great idea.[/size] :-)

[size=xx-small]"The Lord told me that judgment was due but God was holding it back for a short season due to his mercy. (I'm a bit uncomfortable with prophetic utterances but please take it to the Lord in prayer.)"[/size]

[size=small]O LORD, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O LORD, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy Habakkuk 3:2

Martin[/size]


_________________
Martin Millette

 2005/11/22 17:39Profile
habakkuk3
Member



Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

Blessings to you brother. That scripture is the reason for my screen name. :-D "In wrath, remember mercy."


_________________
Ed Pugh

 2005/11/22 19:06Profile
Ernestito
Member



Joined: 2005/9/6
Posts: 7


 Re: TODAY'S "UNSAVED" CHURCH

There's no doubt about the truth of this article. God's church is something quite different (and quite smaller)than what is percieved on the outside. I certainly don't need to add on to what everyone else has said.

But I did notice something said in the article that has come up to me that I can't reconcile in my heart- water baptism being a requirement of salvation.

1 Peter 3:21- "Corresponding to that , baptism now saves you- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience- through the resurerrection of Jesus Christ,"


When I look at the Bible as a whole, I find that God is only concerned about the hearts of men. He sets up many 'rules' through the OT, but only to be outward symbols of what He's really looking for from the hearts of people. Jesus's time with the pharisees is plain evidence of it.

I had a guy meet with me one time (I believe from a Church of God) and tried to convince me that a person is reborn when he gets dunked under water. I asked a couple of obvious questions like "then what would've even led a person to risk their lives with with public water baptism back in the day?" and "what about the theif on the cross?" and "so if you're in jail and can't get to any water for 10 years.....do you have to wait to be born again and hopefully not die before you find your first puddle to dive into?" and "how does the cleansing of your flesh change your soul's condition?"
I didn't mean any sarcasm by it, but the thought that the miracle of being born again is brought about by your physical flesh being dunked under water, well, it just doesn't add up to the God I know or the message of the whole Bible.
The interesting thing is, as much as this guy was zealous for his church and 'preaching the word', he didn't seem to know God at all. So I asked him to tell me how God changed his life. When he was done his story added up to "well, I started going to church and I've just really gotten into it." But as I continued to talk with the guy, he just didn't know God. He only knew particular things out of the Bible that were interesting to him....and even those, he was always blind to the whole point.

Anyway, my point is this. When I read the Bible and even check my heart, I can only see that water baptism is an outward, symbolic demonstration of the true spiritual baptism into the grave of Christ. We do have to die before we can be reborn. John the Baptist himself said that, though he baptizes in water, the One who is coming will bring the true baptism of fire and the Holy Spirit. (paraphrase)
I have to believe that our salvation stands on wheather or not we are baptized (submerged) unto to death with Christ and reborn. I cannot imagine that our salvation is pending on an outward action or ritual.
I'm not saying that water baptism is to be shunned away and forgotten....but rather looked at for what significence it was really meant to carry. And I don't mean theology. I mean, "what is in God's heart here?"
It is actually kind of a mystery to me because of how little it is mentioned in the Bible. But I do know that when you look at the what God is saying throughout the Bible, His concerns are always about the heart of a man towards Him......not the outward workings of the flesh. The Kingdom of God is spiritual. It can't be entered by works of the flesh.
I think this is probably obvious to almost everyone whose reading this, but I keep seeing water baptism being brought up as an entrance into the Kingdom of God and nobody really talks about it.
Maybe I'm a little sensitive on this subject. Probably because of this. A while after talking to that guy, I found out that one of my work mates (a truly lost soul) was going to their meetings because his life was a wreck and he was looking for a way out. After awhile he told me what the pastor said to him. "Okay, Brandon (the sinner), this is how it is. WE are your base. And we're going to raise you to the level where you're ready to get water baptized." A gospel I'd never heard before.
Brandon asked me, "Dude it just seems weird to me. Why do they want to water baptize me so bad?"
It troubled me to see people who didn't know the true baptism(or God) try to convince a lost soul that all he needed was to be dunked under water.......and THEY were his "base". All it did was confuse him (and me too). It did not offer Him any hope of a rebirth, a real cleansing of a sinful conscience, and real relationship with the living God.
In fact, through the weeks Brandon told me about what he was learning, never once did Jesus come into the picture.......much less anything He said. Just a bunch of hype about how Brandon's life is gonna change as soon as he gets dunked under water.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. What happened to that?
So I guess I'm a little sensitive about it all. But don't get me wrong. Water baptism is a wonderful thing if done with a right heart to God. Like many other things God has created, it is a beautiful symbol of Him and His heart for mankind and ,if one desires to do it to demonstrate to others what God has done for him, then by all means don't hesitate.
I myself have considered getting baptized again (I was when I was little and I swam off the stage) but my conscience tells me that I do not need to because my life is already baptized with Christ. If I thought he wanted me to, I wouldn't hesitate.
So again, I just wanted to bring that up. I'm sure most everybody finds this obvious. But I always wonder why no one talks about the true meaning of water baptism.
Okay, I'm done. Tell me whatchya think.
Ern

 2005/11/22 20:36Profile
Smokey
Member



Joined: 2005/2/21
Posts: 417
Edmonton Alberta Cda.

 Re:

I have just finished listening to a message on this site by Paris Reidhead called The True Vine. This message is custom made for this thread, a really good listen..
Greg :-D


_________________
Greg

 2005/11/22 22:10Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Re:


Quote:

“I believe personally myself, in england, canada and america it is an hour of desperation and urgency. We need to realize that this is not the time to play games with religion. It is time to go all out and hold nothing back. We need to be overcomers and strive against sin and seek after holiness of life. I would even say as Ravenhill said its not an crisis hour but an crisis minute, we are nearing the end its time now to repent.”

A crisis minute - I like that one - I agree and think we are both on the same page. There is no time to waste. The Lord has been putting a great urgency on my heart also. I fear like brother Habakkuk3 were are on borrowed time at this very moment

Quote:

“Sadly some of the most corrupt parts of the church are those that proclaim the deeper christian life and baptism in the Holy Ghost.”

Could you please expand slightly on what you mean by this. I think I know where you are going with this, I can see a couple applications, but if you could please clarify - that would be great.


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/11/22 23:05Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy