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habakkuk3
Member



Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 A Call to Anguish...

I'm listening now to a sermon I've listened to a number of times by Pastor David (Wilkerson) entitled "A Call to Anguish."

Although the sermon focuses on Nehemiah, here's another scripture to ponder (Luke 22:43-45 this is from the NIV):

An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And being in [b]anguish[/b], he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.

I don't know about your heart but I'm sad to say that I'm much like the disciples in verse 45 "exhausted from sorrow" compared to the anguish that Jesus experienced.

I can remember a couple of years ago, I went to a non-denominational service and they asked if you wanted to be prayed for and I went up and they asked me what I wanted to be prayed for. I said "I want the baptism of anguish." They looked at me very strangely but prayed for me nonetheless.

Have any of you entered into this anguish and how did the Holy Spirit do it in your heart?


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Ed Pugh

 2005/11/21 17:07Profile
tinluke
Member



Joined: 2005/4/8
Posts: 220
New England USA

 Re: A Call to Anguish...

I can't say that I've specifically asked for a baptism of anguish, but I have asked the Lord to give me His heart. I would rather have HIS broken heart than all of the pleasures in this world. I desire this simply because I love Him and desire to know Him in every possible way. Even if it means to suffer or to have a burdened heart. I once heard a preacher speaking of Jesus say; His capacity to Love is so much greater than we can imagine, but His heart is also that much more capable of being broken.

I believe we need His entire heart to be able to touch this generation. It is only His heart that will enable us to move in the right direction. It is HIS burden that will drive us to our knees in prayer. It is HIS anguish for the lost and dying that will wake us form our spritual slumber
and be the light in this dark world.


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tina

 2005/11/21 18:47Profile









 Re: A call to anguish

Thank you both for these thought-provoking words.

 2005/11/22 8:21
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: A Call to Anguish...

Quote:
I can remember a couple of years ago, I went to a non-denominational service and they asked if you wanted to be prayed for and I went up and they asked me what I wanted to be prayed for. I said "I want the baptism of anguish." They looked at me very strangely but prayed for me nonetheless.



Brother,... I won't even try.

Quote:
Have any of you entered into this anguish and how did the Holy Spirit do it in your heart?



This is one of those messages that can be life changing, It's not the emotion though there is plenty of real gut wrenching emoting that comes through his soul being articulated.. it is just one of the most extremely honest things I have ever heard. It had a profound impact on me and have yet to listen to it without tears. It was something I listened to on the way to a "24 hour prayer meeting" a couple of years ago at the turn of the year and...

With some time past now a couple of things are apparent. I ended up leaving this particular church partially due to my perception at the time and the drastic difference in syncing up with the same anguish of soul and carrying that into what seemed to be more of a topical, surface level venture on that particular night. There was just four of us and my spirit sank when we were given a prayer sheet with names and items on it and they were read off in such a fashion as to be completed in an hour before the next ones signed up came through, it was just so ... matter of fact and lacking any real particular concern. Had planned on staying all night even if it was just to find a corner somewhere to pray quietly alone but ended up being so distraught with the whole thing I just quietly left and never did return, have been 'out of church' ever since.

It was at this point that I felt called out if I might put that in the right construct from the organized church in this fashion. There is a bit of a problem in that the leanings are towards much of what a great deal of the churches are now enamored with, the whole "Purpose Driven" craze and all that. But I loved the brethren that I got to know a bit, the bible studies...

But there was a bigger problem than that and that was with me. It is quite easy to point a finger and many of the same sentiments that Wilkerson address's are evident, the tiredness of the things he has seen, the shallowness and surface level things. But all that came down on my own head with all the questions raised, why did I not speak up then? Why did I not pray honestly and voice the displeasure with the proceedings that particular night? Why did I not share the anguish I was feeling?

I had to back out and reconsider everything that I was doing and the motives behind them. It caused me to really pray and really seek God on His own terms, to work hard after thinking His thoughts after Him and leave even my 'best' thoughts at the feet of Jesus... and there is a great deal of work still to be done. To the best of this fallen mind's ability to grasp, though it be renewed day by day, still it seems the call is to prayer.

Much more could be said, but indeed this is but one example of how profound these messages here can be.

The example our brother gave here is remarkable, who asks for such things? The paradox's of this walk, can attest to what I can only articulate as a "crying on the inside" that never totally wanes away, it is always present but not without joy and wonder and awe, thanksgiving and that compulsory worship that springs forth.

Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a [b]man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief[/b]: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Joh 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have [b]my joy[/b] fulfilled in themselves.


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Mike Balog

 2005/11/22 10:51Profile
martymill
Member



Joined: 2005/10/17
Posts: 48
Montreal, Canada

 Re:

[size=x-small]Dear Mike,
I feel the very same way.[/size]

[size=xx-small]"Had planned on staying all night even if it was just to find a corner somewhere to pray quietly alone but ended up being so distraught with the whole thing I just quietly left and never did return, have been 'out of church' ever since."[/size]

[size=x-small]I've been so struggling to go to church lately. I just don't have the heart to hear another dead sermon by someone who doesn't seem to have been with God in a while (my opinion).[/size]

[size=xx-small]"But all that came down on my own head with all the questions raised, why did I not speak up then? Why did I not pray honestly and voice the displeasure with the proceedings that particular night? Why did I not share the anguish I was feeling?"[/size]

[size=x-small]Good question. Deep down I just don't believe I would be heard.[/size]

[size=xx-small]"I had to back out and reconsider everything that I was doing and the motives behind them. It caused me to really pray and really seek God on His own terms, to work hard after thinking His thoughts after Him and leave even my 'best' thoughts at the feet of Jesus... and there is a great deal of work still to be done. To the best of this fallen mind's ability to grasp, though it be renewed day by day, still it seems the call is to prayer."[/size]

[size=x-small]You got me there. Haven't done that so far. I guess that's my next assignment.

Take care,

Martin[/size]


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Martin Millette

 2005/11/22 11:31Profile









 Re:

Quote:

martymill wrote:
[size=x-small]I've been so struggling to go to church lately. I just don't have the heart to hear another dead sermon by someone who doesn't seem to have been with God in a while (my opinion).[/size]



Brother the 'church' needs people like you. Go through the pain of 50 mins to gain the hearts of the people. God moves in power thru relationships, as well as sermons, don't exault one above another. If you read in Acts the apostles went from "HOUSE TO HOUSE", if you don't call that relationcial, then i don't know what it.


Overall, I think asking God for His heart, is one of those 'dangerous' prayer. I wouldn't say its a 'baptism of anguish' but instead His broken heart for the Lost and Blind.

By 'dangerous' prayer. I mean, you will die. Die. Die to self. Do you see the world crying for souls going to hell? NO because they are the ones heading there.

Asking God for this, means your life WILL CHANGE. It's like asking for Jesus intically. Or the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Things are going to change, because your IN and WITH Him.

God laid His heart on me 2 summers ago. I WEPT for 30 mins STRAIGHT. Anguish. Pain. His heart for the Lost. My blind eyes could now see the dying and lost.

Asking for this, means you need to move, and that you should be overwelmed, that you HAVE to move.

 2005/11/22 12:04
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Wilkerson said something to this effect once:

Go to church. Even if its a dead church. If its a dead church pray that God would sent fire.

In the context of this quote he was talking about going to church as compared to watching church on TV. I also think the same would go with listening to sermons on here, as good as they are. It is not like being in a service.

I suggest both. Listen to sermons outside the building, and go to the meeting.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/11/22 12:32Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2739
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
God laid His heart on me 2 summers ago. I WEPT for 30 mins STRAIGHT. Anguish. Pain. His heart for the Lost. My blind eyes could now see the dying and lost.



I can testify that I have had a similar experience, twice actually, the most recent being a few months ago. I was in the prayer room at my church performing what the church calls "prayer counselling" after an altar call. I spoke with three young people who had responded to the call but was grieved after asking a few questions to find that they had basically come to buy an insurance policy, a get out of hell free card, and were not serious about a relationship with God. When I asked them why they came forward that night the response was, "well, it couldn't hurt". I shared some scriptures on what it means to believe and prayed with them but afterwards just felt the deepest grief I've ever felt come over me and I went back in the sanctuary and wept bitterly in what I can only call deep anguish; I don't think I even wept like that at my father's funeral.

Not sure how that whole thing exactly relates to Mr. Wilkerson's sermon, as it seems something was birthed out of his anguish; not quite sure yet what was birthed out of my experience of anguish or if it can even be compared to what he was preaching about. It seemed to be a transient thing that just came upon me and I couldn't possibly work something like that up in my own strength and wouldn't want to quite frankly. I think I just experienced something of the grief of God's heart for the lost.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2005/11/22 13:48Profile
habakkuk3
Member



Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

The term "baptism of anguish" was coined by Pastor David in the message referenced above.

What I've found is that this anguish began in my heart over my own sin.

For those on SI who know me, know that my first wife died in May 2001. I spent about six months crying & wailing. It was a horribly painful time. Many of my tears were simply sadness because my wife was gone. I also discovered that much of my repentance was false. Once the Holy Spirit showed me this then my heart was broken and I began to cry uncontrollably, oftentimes hours on end. Although I'm an emotional person, this was not an emotional response. It was similar to what Isaiah experienced in Chapter 6 “Then said I, Woe [is] me! for I am undone; because I [am] a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

The following verse describes where my heart was at before. (Hosea 7:14 They do not cry out to me from their hearts but wail upon their beds. They gather together for grain and new wine but turn away from me.)

I have experienced great anguish over hearts and souls but the work is not yet complete. I’ve had several trips during the last year and most of these cities were places where God moved in a great way. I’ve walked with streets with great heaviness of heart and tears.

As the Holy Spirit has enabled me to see my sin and granted me this gift of repentance, the tears of anguish have flowed and I’m beginning to have it in my heart for others and in my prayers, primarily in the prayer closet.

I’m still too concerned, however about what others think and this grieves the work the Holy Spirit is trying to do in my heart. This is a bit different from the focus on Pastor David’s message, which was on Nehemiah. May the Lord God of heaven birth His anguish over the lost in our hearts.

I've experienced this anguish much like Ron and Joshua and it's hasn't been an ongoing anguish, although I know that what the Lord wants. May He unveil my heart and remove anything that blocks this.

I can't articulate very well but I believe this is something that he wants us to walk in.


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Ed Pugh

 2005/11/22 14:17Profile









 Re:

I think the anguish, isn't supposed to be ongoing.

Cause, Christ morned for short period of time. But then fulfilled the Will Of His Father.

I think we all should be willing to receive this anguish. But, not say in it our whole lives.

Think of it this way. If a widow mourns after the death of her husband for a year, everyone says 'it's just' but if she continues to more for 10 years. They say 'woe is her'. Or 'pitty...she is in a rut and there is no hope for her'.

I think the anguish is to not only to humble us, but to get us moving and make the 'fire in us' contagious.

 2005/11/23 13:43





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