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 Two fold - ? and something happening

First off, I have a question, I heard a quote from Spurgeon, he said something like 'if someone is going to hell, let them beg for it' or something like 'let them go after they heard the gospel thru and thru'.

Basically, like urgancy to get the gospel out (this should be simple....hopefully someone knows what quote i'm referring to)

Also, a revolution. is what I feel is about to happen. After i listened to Michael Brown's messages on fire on the altar. That is the same thing that is within my heart. I've searched God about this, and WE (me and him) seem to have the same thing. That we need to make a stance against the world. That we need to stand up for Christ even if it means our life. And now, it's soon turning into that.

Basically, are you willing to die for the Christ that you serve? If not, are you really in love with Him? Examine yourself, cause the battle is coming, weither you want it to or not.

 2005/11/20 1:34
groh_frog
Member



Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re: Two fold - ? and something happening

God, I hope so. And I'm not using that name in vain! GOD, please revive us. Burn out the lies in the church!

Today I sat in church and heard a very in-deapth sermon about the cross. No Law. No need for repentance. Nothing but the humanism that offers eternal life for nothing!

And as we left I heard a few people saying that that was the most powerful sermon they'd ever heard. How can it be? It's just a small part of the truth!

God, please. We need a change. How can so many actually claim to follow you, and yet deny you in everything they do?

Be with us, Lord.

 2005/11/20 4:12Profile
jimbob
Member



Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

So the Cross is a "small" part of the truth? The Cross is "humanism that offers eternal life for nothing"?

The Cross is the very foundation of my faith! Maybe the law and repentance is the foundation of your faith, but without His death on the cross you could not repent, for there would be payment for your sins.

1 Cor 1:18 "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it IS THE POWER OF GOD."

Gal. 6:14 " But may it never be that I would boast, except in the CROSS of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world".

Col. 1:20 "and through Him to reconcile ALL THINGS to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His CROSS..."

A small part of the truth? What exactly are you going to add to the cross for your salvation?

 2005/11/20 8:01Profile









 Re:

Quote:
So the Cross is a "small" part of the truth? The Cross is "humanism that offers eternal life for nothing"?

Hi jimbob,

I recommend you read through groh_frog's thread in the Miracles forum 'Learning to Breathe' to get a feel for this brother's ardour for the Lord. I think you'll find his comments above, were strongly ironic - but I know that doesn't come through in print. So, check him out... and I think you'll find he has the same attitude as you do, to the cross.


Let me take this opportunity to draw everyone's attention to the excellent piece by Oswald Chambers which has been posted in Devotionals... 'WHEN HE IS COME' (a quote from John 16:8), which ties in with this topic perfectly.

 2005/11/20 8:13
jimbob
Member



Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

Hi Dorcas,

Having read through the thread you recommended, I see that GF has a zeal for his understanding of the Gospel.

I don't think his comments were "strongly ironic", just strongly arminian. To say the cross is a "small part" of salvation? So it's the Law + repentance + the Cross + goods works = salvation? Thats the exact picture I get from so many on these forums!

 2005/11/20 9:08Profile









 Re: Two fold...

Hi jimbob,

I'm amazed at your take on gf's post in this thread, esp in the light of his more authentic voice in his own thread. I only offered my first comment because I don't 'hear' what you 'hear', when the whole of his post is taken together. I will try one more time to elucidate what I 'hear' and then it will be up to him to speak for himself if he so wishes.

He said, in answer to the question (would one die for Christ?) by YeshuaMyGd, '

Quote:
God, I hope so. And I'm not using that name in vain! GOD, please revive us. Burn out the lies in the church!

Then, and this is where I think he is using language controversially for a written forum

Quote:
Today I sat in church and heard a very in-deapth sermon about the cross. No Law. No need for repentance. Nothing but the humanism that offers eternal life for nothing!

Note: he said 'in deapth' - followed by 'no Law. No need for repentance.' At this point, it should be obvious that these statements are incompatible. A sermon about the cross which had not established the reason for the cross or our response, cannot [i]possibly[/i] have been [i][b]in depth[/b][/i].

The last sentence, causes confusion - 'Nothing but the humanism that offers eternal life for nothing!' I feel this was his verdict on what others were saying 'that was the most powerful sermon they'd ever heard.'

To this his reply is ' How can it be? It's just a small part of the truth!' ... by which I take it that he meant, when the cross is preached in the way it had been, then those folk who thought they had heard a 'powerful sermon', had heard only 'a small part of the truth'... He was not saying [u]the cross is only a small part of the truth[/u].

Nor did he mention works. And I've no idea how you could bring arminianism into your interpretation of his post. But, over to him, now.

Finally,
Quote:
Thats the exact picture I get from so many on these forums!

Really? On SI? All that addition? I don't find it here. Quite the reverse... no, [i]extremely[/i] the reverse.

 2005/11/20 9:40
jimbob
Member



Joined: 2005/9/25
Posts: 131


 Re:

Hi Dorcas,

GF did mention works," How can so many actually claim to follow you, and yet deny you in every thing they do?"

Doing is working. This statement to me is judging others as to their works, which is dangerous ground to tread.

Apparently some people who heard the sermon he describes were blessed by it, "the most powerful sermon they've heard", why critize that? Maybe they heard something GF didn't?

 2005/11/20 10:01Profile
groh_frog
Member



Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re:

Hey, Jimbob.

Dorcas, you're right, that I should be more clear in what I meant.

Jimbib, I think I must have been unclear. Man, if not for the cross, we would have nothing. But what I meant to say, was that if the cross is preached inappropriately, or out of contect, it's impossible to convey it's meaning.

What I saw today at church was a liberal pastor share the love of God to a group who barely, if at all understand their need for the cross. This is where the difference is.

If you tell somebody that they can have eternal life because of Jesus' sacrifice, good. That's a part of it. But until they understand their sin, and their need for the cross and repentance, they can never understand the Grace of God, or the justice of Hell.

Ray Comfort has a good sermon on this called "Hell's Best Kept Secret". One of the best examples he gives is of two men on an airplane. Well, you give each a parachute. The first is told that the parachute will make his flight more comfortable, while the other one has it explained to him that his plane will crash mid-flight, and without that parachute, he will die.

Well, part-way through the flight, the passengers start to look, and mock, and laught. The first man doesn't understand. He's not more comfortable, as he was told he would be. So, even though he tried it out, he didn't find what he was promised, and he takes off the parachute.

Now, the second man knows why he needs it, and no manner of laughing or mocking will even phase him, because he's got a different focus.

This is what I meant to say. The Bible promises four things for believers: 1, Persecution, 2, Temptation, 3, Trials, 4, Eternal life. But so many churches, including this one, only give a part of the whole truth.

Romans 7:7, Paul says "I would not have known what sin was, but by the Law." You can't expect a person to just know that they're a sinner. "Every man proclaims his own goodness". And before they can understand Grace, they must be made to see their sin, and the fact that they deserve Hell, leading them towards repentance.

In the words of John the Baptist, "Repent!", and Jeusus, "Repent or you shall perish." But that's not a common message anymore. People say, "See, Christ died so that you can go to heaven". They make God nothing more than a means to an end. And that sickens me.

Anyway, I hope I cleared that up a little more.

Grace and Peace...

 2005/11/20 10:11Profile
groh_frog
Member



Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re:

Looking back also, to be more clear on specifics, I mentioned a very "in depth" sermon. Oh, it was!

If there was a way to get you to think about the physical act of the cross, it was there. Stories of soldiers sacrificing their life. Scripture after Scripture on the Love of God. But what I just said, although it talked very much about this one thing, it only touched this.

I firmly believe that when you honestly see yourself for who you are, you will be convicted. And conviction must be present for repentance. And repentance must be present to understand the Cross. If all the Cross was to you was a ticket to glory, you're missing something.

In "Ten Shekels and a Shirt", by Paris Reidhead, he talks about this a bit. He goes so far as to say that "The only people God can use are those who say something like this: 'God, I want to serve you because you are worthy, even if I go to hell in the end'".

Now, if you've seen me "judge" others, know that it's in the way that I've seen myself. When a person who claims to be a Christian is living in their sin, and calling it "God's will for them", I guarantee that they have no love for God. Why, because they don't know him! He doesn't see himself in need of a savior, but rather he accepts Christ's sacrifice as a blanket to allow him to sin without reprecussion. To him, God is meerly a means to an end. And this is the god that many churches are preaching.

I say again, God, I pray for a revival. There's so many lies and deceit misguiding so many. Please, burn the impurities out of those who carry Your Name.

And it's because of seeing entire congregations of people who carry on their lives like this that makes me begin to understand why I should pray that the end times would come soon.

Grace and Peace...

 2005/11/20 10:25Profile









 Re: Two fold...

Quote:
Hi Dorcas,

GF did mention works," How can so many actually claim to follow you, and yet deny you in every thing they do?"

Doing is working. This statement to me is judging others as to their works, which is dangerous ground to tread.

That may be a bit of a cop-out....

I hope you accept there is doing and 'doing' and doing... doing wrong, doing right, doing God's will.

An observer is entitled to judge the cause and effect of the doing they observe, and to judge whether it is a sign the person knows God or not.

This is basic common sense, and something on which Jesus based His criticim of some people. Here, He is commenting on what they are [i]not doing[/i].

Matthew 11:20
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

Matthew 11:21
Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Matthew 11:23
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

 2005/11/20 10:34





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