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luckyd
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Joined: 2005/6/1
Posts: 71
tx

 no medicine just faith

there are parents that are having thier children die because they did not want to give the child medicine when it was sick and instead said that the bible says to have faith. now they are going to prison. what is your view about the bible and how it says to pray for the sick...or anything about this topic


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jesse

 2005/11/18 20:27Profile
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 Re: no medicine just faith

I think there has to be common sense practiced here. In some cases it is wise to take medication, but all the time we should be praying earnestly to be healed. To do the reverse when there is an obvious wrong problem and not treat it is quick silly unless God is strongly impressing it on you.

I would say first:

"If any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him." (James 5:14-15).

then...

hospital etc.. except for dire emergencies that require ambulance etc.. just my 2 cents.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/11/18 22:12Profile
shibu
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Joined: 2003/9/13
Posts: 230
Goa, India

 Re:

I really like the advice apostle Paul gave to his spiritual son Timothy for some disease in his stomach. It is given in 1 Timothy 5:23 (The Message) "And don't worry too much about what the critics will say. Go ahead and drink a little wine, for instance; it's good for your digestion, good medicine for what ails you."

Good example: There is a person who is drowning, he calls upon God for help. Suddenly there comes a helicopter over him to save his life. Since he look for some other form of supernatural way of escape, he refuse this offer. And finally he died at an age below from what God had planed for his life. So with, some of the believers refuse to accept God's won provision through medicine. This is one extreme.

Other extreme is whenever they are sick, they put their trust in man and medicine alone for healing. God never comes into the scene. They won't seek the face of God. Illness and Death of Asa illustrate this, 2 Chronicles 16:11-12 "Note that the acts of Asa, first and last, are indeed written in the book of the kings of Judah and Israel. And in the thirty-ninth year of his reign, Asa became diseased in his feet, and his malady was severe; yet in his disease he did not seek the LORD, but the physicians."

In Him,
Shibu


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Shibu Clement

 2005/11/19 0:34Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 insider info

The trouble with the total faith doctrine or as its been named, "faith only" movement. Is that eventually it turns into works. The people in those movements eventually force the doctrines inorder to fit in. It becomes as much spiritual pride and self will as so many other doctrines can. The first temptation Jesus' had to over come was the temptation to substitute for the Word Spoken from the mouth of God. Learning all the passages on healing and having them in your head and getting the head to make the will conform doesn't always work to well on getting the spiritual life nessary deep down to sustain some of those teachings.
Some things are best learned from the Mouth of God and not man.



Quote:
what is your view about the bible and how it says to pray for the sick



I believe in the healings of Christ as a result of prayer offered in faith. But sometimes because our doubts are so fixed we also need to fast with those prayers we offer. I'm not speaking to the sick but to those who are praying for the sick.
I could go into graet detail on this subject but won't.


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D.Miller

 2005/11/19 0:37Profile
shibu
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Joined: 2003/9/13
Posts: 230
Goa, India

 Re: Personal opinion

The following passage describes the second temptation, Jesus faced just after 40 days of fasting.

Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: ‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’ and, ‘In their hands they shall bear you up, lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’”

Here it is interested to notice that, how satan also used God word to tempt Jesus subtly. Just jump from pinnacle of the temple and claim supernatural protection from God through holy scripture. Thanks God, Lord Jesus overcame satan with God's word by saying "It is also written: Do not put the Lord your God to the test." I believe Jesus must have used staircase to come down from the pinnacle of the temple than an easy way (something spectacular in man's eyes) by tempting God. I am not trying take this portion and generalize for everything.

I am not against divine healing like some sect believe that signs and miracles (gifts of the Holy Spirit) were ended after first apostles' period. I have heard many testimonies about divine healing taking place in the villages of India, when missionaries pray for local heathen people (idol worshipers) there. This is my sincere prayer that God will establish His word through signs and wonders and He will continue use His genuine missionaries in India with signs and wonders.

At the same without bad conscience myself and my family take medicine. Therefore we encourage believers, who got admission for studying MBBS (medicine) or nursing to go ahead with that.

There is a good message on "Jesus Was Tempted As We Are" by Zac Poonen. In that he speaks about these issues. Those who want to listen or watch, please click this [url=http://www.cfcindia.com/cda/mainpages/vmessage.php?issue=35&date=05_10&title=Jesus+Was+Tempted+As+We+Are]Jesus Was Tempted As We Are[/url]

Finally, I don't force my conviction.

In Him,
Shibu


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Shibu Clement

 2005/11/19 7:17Profile
habakkuk3
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Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

My perspective sounds simplistic and it actually is quite simple.

I've seen God heal people (myself included) simply as a sovereign act of his mercy. I have also seen him tell others to go to this doctor and God has met them.

I have a dogmatic position but rather a flexible one, which is not my will but thy will be done. Sometimes when He has told us to wait, then it can be quite painful but the question I ask myself is whether I am obedient or not?


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Ed Pugh

 2005/11/19 10:48Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

That's what should be taught... obedience out of relationship. What a wonderful combination. :-) :-)


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D.Miller

 2005/11/19 11:00Profile









 Re: no medicine just faith

Quote:
I have a dogmatic position but rather a flexible one, which is not my will but thy will be done. Sometimes when He has told us to wait, then it can be quite painful but the question I ask myself is whether I am obedient or not?

habakkuk,

I think you've got a good balance there from a personal perspective, and I agree about the obedience in particular but I would spread out a little more detail for readers.

There is a question... whether God has asked you to believe Him to heal you? If He has, then you must exercise faith in that word. That's obedience.

If He has not put something in your heart to believe into, then the questions are more around whether the illness is a medical emergency from the start - such as an accident, broken bones, serious pain somewhere (head or gut), which may need intervention to save your life. [i]Then[/i] what should a Christian do? Accept the ambulance, I think.

What if you have an infectious condition, such as leprosy, which used to recover spontaneously (according to the Old Testament) but now can be treated very simply with a course of medication, while preventing its spread? What if the infectious condition may be fatal to babes, children and old folk... what does a responsible Christian do?

The original question, about whether a child should be taken to a doctor for medicine, or allowed to die, begs the whole matter of true faith in a living word from God.

I have often prayed for my children when they were small, and saw some very quick resolutions to vomiting conditions, (Sorry chaps.) which had the potential to become very serious to life and health if they persisted. And I have to confess that in those cases, I can't remember asking the Lord if He wanted to heal. I made the assumption on the amount of time He spent healing people, that [i]of course[/i] He did not [i]want[/i] my toddler to die. (And I should say too, there were times when I went straight to the doctor with them, without hesitation.)

I took my role as a parent (God, to my child), very seriously. I didn't expect a one year old to know if she believed Jesus could or would heal her; but, she experienced it, because I prayed and He is gracious. Or, I needed a doctor's opinion before I could pray or accept treatment for my child... always listening to what God might be saying.

Have parents who let their child die, had a word from God, into which they believed? I don't know how one judges, but, one only has to read the amazing list of everything that Jesus healed, to know He is [i]able[/i] to heal, but, not according to a set of rules. He said He does and says what His Father showed and spoke to Him. This has to be the guide for our actions, too.

I was interested in the testimony above, of missionaries praying for idol worshippers. This is the sort of healing I very much believe in. I also know that often prayer is the only recourse a missionary has, unless he is in a hospital with access to medications or an operating theatre. The love which drives men and women from the comfort of their educated culture, to minister in places where there may be no clean running water, or transport to take a sick person from their home to a clinic, also drives missionaries to greater faith.

I think we have enough poor people in our cities and sub-cultures, to take the same approach, if we find ourselves driven to believe the Lord is calling us into such a ministry.

 2005/11/19 12:23
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Good word sis! :-)


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D.Miller

 2005/11/19 23:58Profile
habakkuk3
Member



Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia

 Re:

Quote:
There is a question... whether God has asked you to believe Him to heal you? If He has, then you must exercise faith in that word. That's obedience.

Amen! My pastor broke his foot (we think) and the Lord told him not to go to the doctor. It has been a time of miracles and God's provision because he was willing to step into what God told him to.


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Ed Pugh

 2005/11/20 20:28Profile





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