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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Warren's shallow statement of faith

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 Warren's shallow statement of faith

Rick Warren of Purpose Drive Life fame loves to simplify the Christian life and ministry. This is evident in Saddleback Church's statement of faith.

Consider this excerpt from the statement on "Who is Jesus?" -- [i]"Jesus Christ is God's Son and an equal of the Father. He has existed from the beginning of time, yet lived on earth during the first century A.D."[/i]

This is heresy. Christ had no beginning; He is the eternal God and Creator of all things... including time.

Consider the statement on "What is Salvation?" -- [i]"Our disobedient nature has eternally separated us from our Creator. No matter how hard we try, we can never earn our way back into God's presence. Our only hope is to trust Jesus as God's provision for our disobedience."[/i]

This statement is so shallow and insufficient that it is difficult to know where to begin, but briefly, salvation is much more than a vague, undefined trusting [i]"Jesus as God's provision for our disobedience."[/i] Heretics on every hand could fit their theology into that. They say we are saved by Jesus' life or His example or His suffering in general. [b]Notice that there is no mention of the death, burial, and resurrection.[/b] In fact, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is not even referenced in the Saddleback statement of faith. [b]No mention of the blood. No mention of repentance.[/b]

The Saddleback paraphrase of the gospel is no gospel at all.

Krispy

 2005/11/18 8:01
Nellie
Member



Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re: Warren's shallow statement of faith

Amen, Krispy.
God Bless
Nellie

 2005/11/18 9:28Profile
Sir_Edward
Member



Joined: 2005/10/19
Posts: 124
Michigan

 Re: Warren's shallow statement of faith

No mention of sin either -- just disobedience. No day of judgment, no hellfire Hmmm -- seeker sensitive in doctrinal statement too. I have a question -- applying the Word here -- could anyone get genuinely saved under such a gospel or does such a gospel create more false conversions?

'Hope and trust in Jesus is provision for our disobedience' No atonement through the blood and work of Christ which is only applied ot those who have repentance from sin, faith and I might add commitment -- 'take up your cross and follow me' leads to salvation. This guy needs Keith Green's messages of what's wrong with the gospel. Could anyone get Rick's e-mail and send them to him?

Blessings.


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Ed Raby

 2005/11/18 11:20Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re: Warren's shallow statement of faith

Where did this information come from?

[url=http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/membership/group_finder/faqs_smallgroup.asp?id=7509#q_01]http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/membership/group_finder/faqs_smallgroup.asp?id=7509#q_01[/url]

Says something different.

ABOUT JESUS CHRIST
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all men by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven´s glory and will return again to earth to reign as King of kings, and Lord of lords.

Matthew 1:22,23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5, 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14,15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13

ABOUT SALVATION
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God´s offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin´s penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.

Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 14:6, 1:12; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:26; Romans 5:1

I don't necessarily agree with the gospel he presents.. but I was just wondering where that info came from.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/11/18 11:43Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re:

I am not sure what Saddleback Church's statement of faith looked like when David Cloud wrote the article that Krispy is no doubt referring to (http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fridaynews/2004/fridaynews041210.html), though it looks to be only 11 months old. Perhaps at one time it was accurate?

As was already pointed out by others, the statement of faith at Saddleback doesn't seem to resemble in anyway the statement of faith quoted by Krispy. Anyone who is interested in verifying this can simply go to their statement of faith here (http://www.saddleback.com/flash/believe2.html).

Of note, is what they say they belief about God:

Quote:
ABOUT GOD
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God.
Genesis 1:1,26,27; 3:22; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14



I think Mr. Warren has watered down the gospel, in an attempt to make the church attractive to the world at large. That disgusts me. Yet I don't allow that disgust to flavor giving him the benefit of the doubt and checking up to see if the charges laid against him are founded - and in this case it seems they are not.

Dan
/\/
\/\


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Daniel van de Laar

 2005/11/18 14:44Profile









 Re: Warren's shallow statement of faith

Quote:
He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death.

This is hardly a scriptural statement.

Once you start looking, you'll find more and more verses to back up these:

Ephesians 1
19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Acts 2:24
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

You've got to remember the disciples had raised people from the dead, themselves. They knew it couldn't be done by the dead person. And they had watched Jesus. Every person who was raised from the dead was raised by another.

Quote:
Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God´s offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin´s penalty.

This reminds me of a professional woman I once cared for, whose baby was in Special Care Baby Unit for many days. She commented ruefully at how her role had diminished in life, because the staff had greeted her warmly that morning with the words to the baby 'Breakfast's arrived!'

 2005/11/18 15:19
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
I think Mr. Warren has watered down the gospel, in an attempt to make the church attractive to the world at large. That disgusts me. Yet I don't allow that disgust to flavor giving him the benefit of the doubt and checking up to see if the charges laid against him are founded - and in this case it seems they are not.



In full agreement with you. I too am disgusted at the watering down of the Gospel to make it more palatable to the lost (and to those who profess to be saved, yet don't want to give up their sin). Yet, as you said, we must be VERY careful to give the benefit of the doubt to those who declare themselves to be our brothers/sisters. If I can't find evidence that a person actually believes what is written against them, then I leave ultimate judgment to the Lord. We can't know it all. Many men are good at covering their tracks.........and on the other end of the spectrum, many are out there trying to defame others unjustly. Blessings in Him, Cindy


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Cindy

 2005/11/18 16:00Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 OBSERVATIONS

Just to encourage you guys about something. Rember the church in Detroit that was haveing a semninar and in thier website description they took a somewhat negative stance on street evangelism and preaching? They made some fast modifications to that site when everyone started to noise abroad that sad course discription. In Rick W. church, Saddleback, maybe someone has given them the heads ups too and they're making changes to re-adjust thier doctrinal statements. So maybe what you all are saying does have some weight.

Rember this though, if a website from a local church is being used as a evangelistic tool to get people(the unchurched, unsaved), into the church, it would be very important to present your beliefs in such a way that anyone usa can read it and be drawn to your place of worship. Rember, thier probably not trying to get people saved from thier website, just interested in coming to thier church service. I suggestion is this : 1) Take what they have written, re- write it or start from scratch and write up a doctrinal stance. 2) mail them a copy with the modifications and suggestions.

Don't forget to let the rest of us see what you labored over and maybe as a group effort we can write something that many churches who have little time will adopt and use for thier church statement of belief. Most churches that I know have little or no monies for websites and so what they have is usually only done on a voleenteer basis or kinda like shooting from the hips effect.
Lets not only see the problems but by the grace of God reach out to help solve thoughs problems. This is my commandment that you Love One Another that your joy may be full, we only have but to obey that great commandment, what others do on the other end is thier responsibility. :-)


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D.Miller

 2005/11/18 17:50Profile





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