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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374

 OUCH! ...

Posted from Andrew Strom's Newsletter ...

IMPORTANT: Please note that the "Emerging Church" movement
that is spoken about here bears little relation to the "Out-of-church"
or 'House-church' movements at all. It is actually a movement trying
to appeal to those who are sick of "church as normal" - but by
bringing in such things as candles and New Agey 'self esteem'
teaching and by loosening up certain beliefs, etc. It is quite a
vague, but increasingly influential movement in the church. The
following hard-hitting article was found at-

-by Paul Proctor. (Nov 14, 2005).

The headline read: "Waco pastor Kyle Lake killed
in freak baptism accident." I thought to myself: "Yeah, I guess
this one just slipped by the Sovereign God of the Universe... 'His
eye is on the sparrow' but evidently not on a prominent Emerging
Church leader standing in a baptistery full of water holding an
electronically charged microphone before a crowd of 800 on
Sunday morning following a prayer where he petitioned the Almighty
to "surprise me.""

Now before some of you go indignant on me for my lack of
sympathy over this pastor's sudden demise, I would ask you to
consider the late Ananias and the Apostle Peter's caustic comment
to his wife Sapphira before she dropped dead in front of that congregation:

"…behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at
the door, and shall carry thee out." - Acts 5:9

I couldn't help but notice that he didn't gently take her hand and
try to comfort or console her over the untimely death of her
husband before breaking part two of the bad news. Was Peter
being un-Christ-like in his terse remarks to her or was he busy
teaching onlookers something more important, like the necessity
of fearing and obeying God?

And what about that little diatribe the Apostle Paul wrote to his
young protégé' in 1st Timothy 1:20 about having "delivered unto
Satan" Hymenaeus and Alexander "that they may learn not to
blaspheme?" Where's the love here, for crying out loud? Kind of
makes you want to ask Rick Warren what Paul's "S.H.A.P.E."
was, doesn't it? He also cited another false teacher named
"Philetus" in, shall we say, less than endearing terms over in
2nd Timothy 2.

I think it's safe to say that comments like those from Peter and
Paul would pretty much render them unsuitable for staff jobs at
Saddleback or Willow Creek because you see, unlike the cowardly
and enabling church leader today, they used to name the names
of heretics and blasphemers; and today's glass house gospel
doesn't really allow that sort of thing any longer. So, if you are
planning a career in ministry, just remember; when it comes to
criticizing your corrupt contemporaries, mum's the word.

My how things have changed…

"Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." -1 Tim 5:20.

So, were they being cruel, unloving and disobedient to God by
saying such things to the brethren? Where's all the kind, gentle,
caring and coddling compassion we are constantly commanded to
show today's false prophets and their underlings who incessantly
lead others astray from the pulpits of perdition in a choreographed
confusion directed by the "father of lies?"

And then there was that perverse fellow Paul so harshly addressed
in his first letter to the Corinthians, who had an incestuous affair
with his father's wife; commanding the church there to: "… deliver
such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the
spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Cor 5:5)

Wow! Talk about "mean-spirited!" Imagine hearing that in your
Sunday morning announcements! This can't be the same fellow
that penned chapter 13, could it?

And let's not forget those memorable words from the Author of love
and compassion Himself, Jesus Christ, when He addressed those
who would dare fracture the faith of a child:

"And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in
me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck,
and he were cast into the sea." - Mark 9:42

Do you get the uneasy feeling that a completely different gospel is
being preached today? Yeah, me too…

Terry Esau, a visiting speaker to UBC and witness to the horrible
electrocution of Rev. Lake that morning in Waco, was quoted in a
World Net Daily article as saying:

"I think he [Kyle] would have said, 'There are laws of nature,
electrical laws, and they were violated that day and I was in a
really bad place where the violation happened.'"

I would only add that the Emergent Church is also in a really bad
place right now; that many spiritual laws are also being violated;
and they would do well to heed the Word of God and repent before
their artsy-craftsy plans for the future are unexpectedly altered,
like Rev. Lake's.

Clearly, any man or woman who disobeys the physical laws God
has established in this earthly domain risks dying a physical
death, as evidenced by the tragic event at Baylor. It should also
be noted that those who violate the spiritual laws of God risk
death, as well; and anyone who has researched with any
discernment, conviction and knowledge of Scripture, the unbiblical
teachings and practices of the Emerging Church movement knows
all too well that the laws of the Lord and His Word are not only
being violated for the sake of the sensual; but also that the leaders
of this new spirituality are teaching others to emulate them and
practice many ungodly things in the name of Christ such as new
age mysticism, the empty-minded mantras of contemplative prayer,
labyrinths, the trivializing and minimizing of God's absolute truths
and the casual dismissing of doctrine as divisive, destructive and
unnecessary so as not to infringe upon one's own personal
experience and opportunities for entertainment, excitement,
enlightenment, illumination, stimulation and gratification.

University Baptist Church posted the closing remarks of the last
sermon their pastor gave that fateful day on their web site. It
contains the words they evidently would most like you and I to
remember him by. To say the least, they are quite revealing:

" Live. And Live Well. BREATHE. Breathe in and Breathe deeply.
Be PRESENT. Do not be past. Do not be future. Be now. On a
crystal clear, breezy 70 degree day, roll down the windows and
FEEL the wind against your skin. Feel the warmth of the sun. If
you run, then allow those first few breaths on a cool Autumn day
to FREEZE your lungs and do not just be alarmed, be ALIVE. Get
knee-deep in a novel and LOSE track of time. If you bike, pedal
HARD… and if you crash then crash well. Feel the SATISFACTION
of a job well done-a paper well-written, a project thoroughly
completed, a play well-performed. If you must wipe the snot from
your 3-year old's nose, don't be disgusted if the Kleenex didn't
catch it all…because soon he'll be wiping his own. If you've
recently experienced loss, then GRIEVE. And Grieve well. At the
table with friends and family, LAUGH. If you're eating and laughing
at the same time, then might as well laugh until you puke. And if
you eat, then SMELL. The aromas are not impediments to your
day. Steak on the grill, coffee beans freshly ground, cookies in the
oven. And TASTE. Taste every ounce of flavor. Taste every ounce
of friendship. Taste every ounce of Life. Because-it-is-most-

Where's the call to repentance - the willing self-sacrifice of the
redeemed - the grateful suffering and faithful testimony of a
blood-purchased saint? Where is the dire warning to the rebellious
about an eternity in hell that awaits those who refuse to heed the
call? And, what about God's eternal, unchanging and indisputable
Word, and the Cross of Christ that is repeatedly referred to
throughout? a Cross that was selflessly and sacrificially endured
by His only Begotten Son to deliver us from this fallen world and
pay for your hideous sins and mine.

Is he preaching a tantalizing message of sensory gratification,
psychotherapy and escape to pleasure seekers on holiday or
obediently pointing sinners toward an undeserved opportunity for
eternity with Jesus Christ in a Kingdom not of this world? Just
whose life, death, kingdom and words are being exalted and
memorialized here; those of a dying man or a living God?

Compare his priorities to those of Jesus:

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and
wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life
also, he cannot be my disciple." - Luke 14:26

Frankly, Rev. Lake sounds like someone who was absolutely in
love with his life, the world around him and everyone in it, which is
the expressed reverse of what the Bible teaches:

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any
man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." -1 Jn 2:15.

Just how is the Lord glorified in the worship of the world, the
adulation of men, the gratification of the flesh, the satisfying of the
senses and the personal pursuits, ambitions and "unequally yoked"
relationships of the here and now in a Sunday morning sermon?

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship
of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a
friend of the world is the enemy of God" - James 4:4

Notice the stark contrast between Lake's seductive words and
those of the Psalmist:

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom." -Psalm 111:10

In fact, nothing in Scripture even remotely resembles the heralded
expressions and whimsical aspirations found in Rev. Lake's final
message. One might just as easily find such things in a secular
bookstore among the esoteric writings of an atheist, agnostic,
pagan or occultist; or in a romance paperback from some corner
market; in the songs of a struggling Starbuck's singer on a
Saturday night; or in the syrupy script of an afternoon soap.

I downloaded the entire sermon he prepared and saw the name of
"Jesus" mentioned only once in passing; and even then He was
not identified as the Christ, much less the Son of God or someone
who died on a cross for the sins of the world. The Gospel was
simply not preached! This is the new spirituality; and it troubles
me deeply that many are not going to hear it because today's
preachers won't preach it!

Can you think of anything more tragic than lost souls being baptized
before an applauding audience of their peers and spending the rest
of their doomed lives thinking they're saved because of it? How do
you back up and undo that kind of deceitful damage and convince
them that what they underwent so innocently in front of everyone
was a farce initiated by their pastor? Don't grieve for Kyle Lake,
my friends; grieve for all of those who never heard the words
"sinner," "shed blood," "repent," "resurrection" or the Gospel of
Jesus Christ preached!

And please don't write me to say what a kind, wonderful, generous,
loving and funny person Rev. Lake was because that's not a
sufficient replacement for proclaiming the whole counsel of God;
and I'm quite sure Ananias, Sapphira, Hymenaeus, Alexander and
Philetus were all dearly loved and treasured by their friends, family
and followers as well. There is only one true God, one true Gospel
and One Name in all of Creation that saves; and that name is
Jesus Christ!

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other
name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
- Acts 4:12

The folks at University Baptist Church and The Associated Baptist
Press might consider Rev. Lake's death an accident; but I assure
you, as Romans 8:28 clearly teaches, there is no such thing
between the Alpha and the Omega.

It happened; and it happened for a reason.

 2005/11/17 17:22Profile

Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374

 OUCH! ... again ...

Posted from Andrew Strom's Newsletter ...

NOTE: The following is an extract from a wonderful book,
'The Heavenly Man' by Brother Yun - one of the House-church
leaders from China who has been imprisoned and tortured for
his faith. He is speaking here of what it will take for the
Western church to see Revival:

CHINESE LEADER SPEAKS OUT - Re: "Revival in the West"
-Brother Yun.

Many pastors in Europe and America have told me they want to
see great revival. I'm frequently asked why China is experiencing
revival but most places in the West are not. This is a big question
to answer, but some reasons are very apparent to me.

When I'm in the West, I see all the mighty church buildings and all
the expensive equipment, plush carpets, and state-of-the-art sound
systems. I can assure the Western church with absolute certainty
that you don't need any more church buildings. Church buildings
will never bring the revival you seek. The pursuit of more
possessions will never bring revival. Jesus truly stated, "A man's
life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." -Lk 12:15.

The first thing needed for revival to return to your churches is the
Word of the Lord. God's Word is missing. Sure, there are many
preachers and thousands of tapes and videos of Bible teaching,
but so little contains the sharp truth of God's Word. It's the truth
that will set you free.

Not only is knowledge of God's Word missing, but obedience to
that Word. There's not much action taking place.

When revival came to believers in China, the result was
thousands of evangelists being sent out to all corners of the
nation, carrying fire from the altar of God with them. When God
moves in the West, it seems you want to stop and enjoy His
presence and blessings too long, and build an altar to your experiences.

You can never really know the Scriptures until you're willing to
be changed by them.

All genuine revivals of the Lord result in believers responding with
action and soul winning. When God truly moves in your heart you
cannot remain silent. There will be a fire in your bones, like
Jeremiah, who said, "His word is in my heart like a fire, a fire
shut up in my bones. I am weary of holding it in; indeed, I cannot."
Jeremiah 20:9.

Furthermore, it's only when we step out in obedience and share
the gospel with people that we come to know God's blessing in
every area of our lives. That is why the Apostle Paul wrote to his
co-worker Philemon, "I pray that you may be active in sharing
your faith, so that you will have a full understanding of every
good thing we have in Christ." -Philemon v.6.

I've seen people in Western Churches worshiping as if they're
already in heaven. Then someone invariably brings a comforting
message, like, "My children, I love you. Don't be afraid, I'm with
you." I'm not opposed to such words, but why is it that nobody
seems to hear a Word from the Lord like, "My child, I want to
send you to the slums of Asia or the darkness of Africa to be my
messenger to people dying in their sin."?

-From 'The Heavenly Man' - pg 296-297.
Book available from '' and other outlets.

 2005/11/17 17:23Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7452

 Re: OUCH! ... again ...

Sir, very good even though at times it about made me vomit. However, let me ask you: what does repentance look like in shoe leather? Popular theology has dismissed restitution, reconciliation as unnecessary and to demand it will make you sound like a very ungodly person. Too many enjoy their sins too much, want to be saved without a change in lifestyle.....

Greg posted this quote on another thread: The Bible itself is intolorant, and true believers should be as well. Bob JonesIII.


Sandra Miller

 2005/11/17 17:43Profile

Joined: 2005/10/8
Posts: 196
Roanoke Rapids, NC


Thank you so much for posting this. I think I'll read it for my Bible study tonight! :-)

Christopher Wright

 2005/11/17 17:54Profile

Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374

 Re: OUCH! ...

Hi ginnyrose,

First let me say that i take no joy whatsoever in what happened to this pastor, but upon my initial hearing of his electrocution it brought back to remembrance a part of a word (i believe) our Lord gave me that was once up on a website i had ... And that word was this;

[i]As per Revelation chapters 2 & 3, the Lord is about to "remove angels/pastors" and "candle sticks/individual churches" - "if thou doth not repent"! In other words its either "do right now", or "die right now"! ... spiritually and/or physically. ... And yes there is still "sin unto death", even under grace (1 John: 5:16).... Many pastors are about to be physically called home, so as to be replaced by "those whom God has chosen" to tend His flock.

We are about to witness an unprecedented stirring up of the Body of Christ due to the Divine dismissal of "angels/pastors" who are not willing to "repent" to the renewed leadership of the Holy Spirit. And the redistribution (removal of candlesticks) of their sheep, hungry for the undiluted Word, towards relocation into "do right" churches (like that of Philadelphia) under "do right" pastors![/i]

i caught a lot of grief (which i've learned to now count as joy) from folk i know and didn't know about proclaiming this word, and when i heard about this pastor i immediately wondered to God if this was just the beginning of my/our seeing what i believe He dropped into my spirit at the beginning of 2001 ... i did some research on this pastor and all i found were glowing reviews, until i got Andrew Strom's newsletter and posted what Paul Proctor said ... i totally agree with his bottom line "It happened; and it happened for a reason" ... May God in His infinite mercy reveal to us His Body if the reason has anything to do with what Paul Proctor just flat footedly states, what i believe i heard Him say, and/or what He actually says in Rev. 2 & 3 ...

i just find it amazing that so many Christians don't believe that the same Jesus who cleaned out the earthly temple would not also cleanse the temples that are our own individual bodies as well as we His collective Temple (or Body) ... i often ask pastors/saints, "Just who do you think Christ is talking to in Rev. 2 & 3 when He says what He'll do if we don't repent"? ...

i saw Barna interviewed last night, and i've got to get His book REVOLUTION ... The type of saint described as over the top, fanatical and to black and white is exactly the type of saint i am, and in the eyes of others i'm getting worse ... He described a type of saint that gets saved, is ignited and consumed in the flaming first love an work of Jesus, gets a vision and an unction from God to move on past just playing Church, and is subsequently patronized, marginalized and then demonized if that saint refuses to abandon the vision they believe God gave them and surrender to the pastor's/denomination's/church's lukewarm program(s) instead ... Barna said many of these type saints have left the organized church (tho many are still in), and that many are in home churches ... He said these are now about 20% of Christianity in America and that to the organized church we're radicals, what Barna calls revolutionaries determined in prayer to get a breakthrough from heaven to the breaking down of satanic strongholds within the Body of Christ, particularly here in the U.S. ...

"The Bible itself is intolerant, and true believers should be as well"

Amen 3 times! ... That's why when others call me narrow minded, i say thank you! ... For broad (minded) and spacious is the way leading off into destruction, but narrow (minded) is the road leading to salvation and few are the ones finding it (let alone staying on it) ...

i believe Holy Ghost breathed wondrous and miraculous things are about to transpire in the Body of Christ ... REVIVAL AND HARVEST AND A CHURCH BECOMING WITHOUT SPOT OR WRINKLE! ...

 2005/11/18 10:19Profile

Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374

 Re: OUCH! ...

tacklebox ...

You're welcome ... :-D

Bro. R

 2005/11/18 10:22Profile

Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131


In regards to this topic I fould the following webiste:

 2005/11/18 15:14Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Rahman's school of heart

Rahman... You just kill me in the most wonderful way! So unconventional and unpredictable ...

It's your heart... It just cut's through everything, even the odd and 'prophetic' stuff (By the way, rememeber the 'awkward' comment discussing about your book? What I meant was where I was sitting that particular day, I was in a training class on lunch break, [i]that's[/i] what was so awkward)

He said these are now about 20% of Christianity in America and that to the organized church we're radicals, what Barna calls revolutionaries determined [b]in prayer[/b] to get a breakthrough from heaven to the breaking down of satanic strongholds within the Body of Christ, particularly here in the U.S. ...

Amen 3 times! ... That's why when others call me narrow minded, i say thank you! ... For broad (minded) and spacious is the way leading off into destruction, but narrow (minded) is the road leading to salvation and few are the ones finding it (let alone staying on it) ...

Oh, that's really good brother. You are right, you are getting worse, Praise God. Liked that article as well...

"[i]Broad minded in narrow confines[/i]"

Mike Balog

 2005/11/18 16:23Profile

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