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 Re:

chris

So, how did the light from stars billions of light years away from the earth get here already? Or was the earth created in a universe that already existed for billions of years?

Bub

 2005/11/22 11:04
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Here are a couple of articles that address that.

[url=http://answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i4/lighttravel.asp]Light-travel time: a problem for the big bang[/url]

[url=http://answersingenesis.org/docs/405.asp]How can we see distant stars in a young universe?[/url]


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Josh Parsley

 2005/11/22 12:23Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Hey Bub,

Quote:
I'm just wondering what else is out there and when we'll meet up.



While I'm not given over to the idea that the universe has a natural or even God-given tendency to generate life, I certainly agree with you that there is much to wonder about out there. Sometimes, with all the debate on this subject, it's easy for both sides to forget how little we really do know about the cosmos we find ourselves in!

I can't but help imagine that when we finally enter eternity and see for ourselves we'll say. "Wow, we had no idea!!"

MC


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Mike Compton

 2005/11/22 12:27Profile









 Re: Brief History of Creationism

Quote:
So, [b]how did the light from stars billions of light years away from the earth get here already[/b]? Or was the earth created in a universe that already existed for billions of years?

Hi Bubba,

I know I'm not Chris, and I'm not going to give an answer you can agree with, but, I'd just like to point out that there are 3 days of creation and 13 verses of Genesis chapter 1, between God creating 'light' and God creating the sun and the moon.

Perhaps this is where the light came from, which you are looking for?

 2005/11/22 15:16









 Re:

Nice coincidence* that the first thing God creates in Genesis is Light and the first thing that happens in evolution theory is the big bang, creating space and diseminating light. In both senarios the sun and earth are created later.

Bubbaguy

*Only I don't think it is a coincidence. :-)

Preachparsly

the article on light makes a large unsubstantiated supposition:

"the temperature of the CMB would have been very different at different places in space due to the random nature of the initial conditions."

How so if everything started from the same point of origin?

Bub

 2005/11/22 15:51
JFEdgar
Member



Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 Re: Brief History of Creationism

I would really like to encourage you again, bubbaguy, to pick your battles. With 70% of college age students having never heard the gospel, I think we should be focused on that. Our witness is the gospel and the word of God, and we let God do the rest. Jesus didnt say "convince the world", in fact, He said that was the Holy Spirit's job. He didnt tell us to argue with them about philosophy or science until they are convinced (for an intellectual conversion will only create an intellectual christian, not someone who has not passed from death to Life in God and experienced Him in more than an intellectual way).

I just have to say, this is the wrong battle. Even the major ID promotors do not seem to spend much time debating with Creationist christians, but rather witnessing to the world to the truth of the gospel. If your witness does not directly point to Christ Himself, then you are not a witness for Christ.


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Joe E

 2005/11/22 17:05Profile
saved_matt
Member



Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England

 Re:

*sigh*

i really wanted to ignore this debate but here i am again

Bub

Quote:
Nice coincidence* that the first thing God creates in Genesis is Light and the first thing that happens in evolution theory is the big bang, creating space and diseminating light. In both senarios the sun and earth are created later.



Genesis 1:1In the beginning God created the heavens [b]and the earth[/b]. 2 And [b]the earth[/b] was without form and empty. And darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be [b]light.[/b] And there was light. 4 And God saw the light that it was good. And God divided between the light and the darkness. 5 And God called the light, Day. And He called the darkness, Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

earth before light

also

plant life (day 3) before sun AND stars (day 4)

Gen 1:16 And God [b]made[/b] two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the smaller light to rule the night, and [b]the stars also.[/b]


do we have to go through this same debate every week?

mat


_________________
matt

 2005/11/22 17:17Profile









 Re:

Matt, that's not the correct way to read this passage. The passage moves from the general to the specific. Heavens and the earth are without form. So was the universe before the Bang. Light is the first specific thing created. Bub

 2005/11/23 10:20









 Re:

JFEdgar,

Thanks for your concerned comment. You, of course, know that there are many ways of witnessing for Christ. Personally, I favor the approach of St Francis of Assisi: "Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words."

Bub

 2005/11/23 10:50
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4501


 What is light?

Hi bubbaguy...

Quote:
So, how did the light from stars billions of light years away from the earth get here already? Or was the earth created in a universe that already existed for billions of years?

I suppose that the error is in the notion that the [u]Creator[/u] (God) is [u]confined[/u] to the laws of [u]creation[/u]. God's ways are most definitely [u]not[/u] our ways. While men are confined to such laws -- the scope of our understanding of those laws is truly limited. Accepted science does indeed contradict with Scripture. As some have mentioned before, the earth (and even plants) before the sun, moon and stars. But [u]truth[/u] will never contradict with the Word of God.

As far as light is concerned, my personal opinion is that we do not truly understand the nature of light. Indeed, according to the Scriptures, it was created [u]before[/u] the stars. There was a time that scientists believed that the speed of light is constant (approximately 186K miles/second). However, this notion has recently been called into question. A couple of years ago, scientists actually detected -- and actually created -- some variations in the speed. This includes an experiment in Princeton that actually [i]increased[/i] the speed of light by shooting a laser through a pool of caesium atoms. Light has also been "slowed" during various experiments -- even brought to a standstill by physicists at Harvard University and the Lebedev Institute in Russia. As the Universe was discovered to be filled with "bends" in space, it is theoretical that light can possibly travel across these bends -- achieving far greater "speeds" than the approximated constant. Also, there are theories that light traveled much faster in the past (called the [i]variable speed of light[/i]). If light can be so manipulated by human scientists, and that our "understanding" of light is so limited -- why are we still unable to realize that God is not so limited?

Remember, I John 1:5 states: "[i]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all[/i]."

:-)

I did a quick google search concerning the speed and nature of light -- and this seemed to help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light


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Christopher

 2005/11/23 11:14Profile





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