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Discussion Forum : General Topics : who is right catholics or christians?

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luckyd
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Joined: 2005/6/1
Posts: 71
tx

 who is right catholics or christians?

ok today i talked with this catholic teacher. he told me stuff that i didnt exactly understand but it confused me yet made sense. to start with, he told me that the reason they believe in all that stuff like purgatory and basically all that stuff that non catholics dont do is because he said something about how the bible doesnt contain everything because theres letters that werent put in because they werent written by the apostles so they didnt leave them in and alot of letters that werent included from people explain alot more. so basically can someone tell me anything about those letters and stuff. he basically said that theres more than just the bible


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jesse

 2005/11/15 20:04Profile
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 Re: who is right catholics or christians?

This priest would be referring to the apocryapha which are books that were written during the time of the bible. The letters that are in the bible were prayerfully chosen as the direct link to the apostles doctrines and belief of christ. And the compiling of the bible was in response to some heresies that were going on in those days.

The letters found in the bible that we hold in our hands are of the sure tradition of the apostles that knew Jesus. They are trust worthy, but those other letters that the priest is referring to are basically historical documents and are of some value, but not all inspired or containing revelation from Jesus Christ.

The doctrines of purgatory is not biblical at all and was NOT an tradition or teaching of any of the apostles. So early church history does not speak of this type of belief at all.

The modern day Roman Catholic church is not the teachings and systems of what christ and the apostles taught or propogated. It is a bending of things spiritual into a form which we call religion.

I would spend some time researching it yourself:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7667&forum=42&2

It is not a hard enough thing that a priest would have to show you, if you ask God and research early church history is it evident that most of the things that the catholic church is teaching is wrong.

I am not very knoweldable in these areas but if you have more pointed questions I am sure others would be able to help. It would be good to know more of what you are reading and finding out, feel free to share it with us.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/11/15 20:21Profile
Mr_Nath
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Joined: 2005/2/13
Posts: 20


 Re: who is right catholics or christians?

Luckyd, a lot of different 'groups' may try and tell you there are other books that should be part of the Bible. God however revealed way back in the old testament how many books there would be in the entire Bible. This settled my issue with any 'arguments' people tried to have with me.

Golden Lampstand in the Tabernacle.

Quote:

Prophetic of the Jesus the Light of God

NAMES:
Lampstand, candlestick, pure candlestick, the candlestick of God, golden lampstand, gold lampstand, menorah.

Golden Lampstand
1. No specific dimensions
2. 3 stages of the almond plant - unopened bud / knop | flower | fruit
3. Lamp of oil RESTS on the FRUIT.
4. Made of beaten gold
5. 7 branches ; one main shaft and 3 shoots on each side.

7 lamps of oil from 7 branches, each comprised of 3 fruit+3 flowers + 3 buds = 9 ornaments - HAVING THEIR SOURCE IN 3 ORIGINATING BUDS. All added up they equal 66 ornaments | A confirmation to God's selection of 66 books of the Bible that testify of the plan of redemption.

Jesus is the Branch, also a picture of the Lampstand.



Just a note regarding the bud, flower & fruit.
God hidden, God revealed, God deposited (seed) OR Father, Son, Holy Ghost.

[url=http://www.templebuilders.com/Index_Tabernacle_of_Moses_9.php]http://www.templebuilders.com/Index_Tabernacle_of_Moses_9.php[/url]

Have a look on the net, the lampstand and the entire tabernacle goes into great detail being a shadow for Jesus.

God Bless.

 2005/11/15 22:51Profile









 Re:

When I started challenging religion in general and narrowed my search within 'Christian' things. I leaned toward Catholic doctrine for about 2 weeks, then the Spirit showed me some things.

You don't have to be an expert theologian to understand the falicies of the Catholic doctrine.

First off, the extra 14 books. The Jews themselves don't use these books, that should be a good hint of who has the right bible ;-) .

Also, when you ask them 'prove to me purgetory' or 'prove to me Mary's deity (co-redeemer, ascended to heaven, Mother of God, co-equal with God the Father)' or 'prove to me the prayer of "saints" who have passed away'.

You'll see maybe 1 or 2 scriptures. The verse in the new testiment they use " each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work." (1 Corin. 3:13)

Read it in context. The time of testing 'by fire' is in this world, not after-life. But the catholic church holds that 'this verse' is purgatory.

It's clear this scripture doesn't say there is a 'holding cell' until you get purified then you go to heaven. No, it says if you hold fast, then when you die, if Christ is your rock, then you will receive your reward.

When I was being challenged and challenged the catholic doctrine. I wasn't firmly rooted in God's truth. I was moving like the wave of the sea. I'm not saying you are, but it sounds like it.

I ask/challenge you to check out a few sites that show the catholic doctrine and expose it so that you can TRULY BE FIRMLY ROOTED in Christ.

www.carm.org i've found to be a wonderful resource. They have an entire section on catholics.

Press into God, ask Him from your own heart for Him to show you the truth. Pray, Pray, and seek God desperatly for an answer.

I'll try to write more later.

 2005/11/16 9:55
Axe1338
Member



Joined: 2005/10/31
Posts: 120
Miami, Fl

 Re:

God wrote a book. The bible. All scripture has been given by inspiration and has been God breathed. If it is not in the bible it doesn't really matter. Abide in his word. The spirit searcheth the deep things of God.

 2005/11/16 10:13Profile
JFEdgar
Member



Joined: 2005/10/21
Posts: 133
Wellington, Ohio

 Re: who is right catholics or christians?

Hi lucky,

I grew up with somewhat of a catholic background. When I first got saved, i leaned toward catholicism (since that was my background) for a bit. However, as I read the words of Jesus more and more I became more and more hesitant to join any church at all. As God gave me life, I saw the deadness of many who simply 'attend church'. Catholicism, to me, was the deadest of these all. It produces many nice people, but no new people. It produces lots of people who do nice things and like nice poetry from the bible, but when it comes down to it... Jesus has not come into these lives and radically transformed them as He said MUST happen in order for a man or women in order for them to be saved. Jesus cannot be in a life without that life radically changing. God is radical, and when He is in any way truly a part of someones life, their life radically changes. I saw that few in the catholic church have had this, few have been truly born of God, brought from death to Life to live in a real, abiding relationship with God. Instead, most (but not all) catholics simply have a nice religion with many weekly and lifetime rituals that they do. This is not christianity, and if you read through the gospels this is not what Jesus preached. Jesus preached from death to Life, He preached a relationship with the Father, He preached a life that is totally saturated and entirely committed to God alone and no one else. He preached a life whose sole focus is the glory of the Father, not our own selfish fulfillment (although we do find fulfillment in giving the Father glory).

I would really encourage you, if you have not before, to really read over these verses and meditate on them. They have encouraged me a ton, and really helped me to see what the focus of Christianity and Jesus' goal for man are;


Luke 14:26-33 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 6:3-14 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 8:2-17 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

John 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


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Joe E

 2005/11/16 12:53Profile
Roxi
Member



Joined: 2003/6/29
Posts: 39
Tallahassee, Florida

 Re:

http://www.goddess2000.org/Mary.html (a page on Mary from a Pagan source...interesting quote from the site: "Through time, the names and sometimes the images of the Madonna and child have changed, but the location of these shrines, and the wide devotion to them has remained constant."

What is interesting to me about the catholic faith, is that so many are willing to spend their lives worshiping Mary, but despise the cross of Christ. The problem as I see it is that people want a form of religon that will require the least amount of effort to get to heaven. People flock to these religions. As it says in 2 Timothy, "For a time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn their ears from truth and will turn aside to myths." (4:3-4) But the truth of the matter is, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through Him! And that is what scripture says, period!

I encourage you to do your research. But most of all pray for discernment from the Holy Spirit. That is all you need. If you truly desire to know God, He will reveal Himself to you. He is ever faithful. I will be praying for you.

Roxi


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Tiffanie

 2005/11/17 15:22Profile





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