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repentcanada
Member



Joined: 2005/5/9
Posts: 659


 Re:

I onced worked a job in a small sized city, at a food production factory, on the production level - the job 90% of the employees do. Doing that I made approximately $32,000 a year with no overtime. The educational level needed was only high school. If people in America/Canada make that much money at entry level production jobs (not even a physical type one), with no responsibilities of major proportions why do we fall short and cheap of supporting ministers of the Gospel in many cases? A soul is of eternal more significance than anything a factory or plant can manufacture for example. Those that preach the Gospel should make their living from the Gospel. I do not see how churches don't see the importance of pastors preaching and teaching strictly as their means of income. How else can they devote everything they have to their flock (and family)?

 2005/11/15 6:36Profile
groh_frog
Member



Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re:

There's deffenitely a double-standard when it comes to employing our preachers. But rather than asking if we're paying them too much or too little when comparing to ourselves, it should be considered how we're often indulging ourselves.

Paul worked for a living. He was also such an instrument of God. But it should be clear that he wasn't living for riches. More than likely, he denied a wealthy family (look at his education and history), in favor of the life he took for Christ.

Now, some of the most humble men that I've seen serving the Lord were those who were alright using the same suit every Sunday, and needed little more. If you were to offer a pay increase, it would go to good use- they would spend it on serving the Lord in another way.

This should be an example for how we look at ourselves. Do we deserve the fruits of our labor, even with our jobs? Sure, if that's what you're focused on. But how much better could your extra be used?

I'm not saying we should demand pastors who live in practical poverty, but just as we often realize that others might not need all of the indulgences they have, we should be examining ourselves. Hopefully, your pastor knows that- it's a good sign that they really are living for God, and not serving the church like it's a wage-deserving job.

Grace and Peace...

 2005/11/15 8:03Profile
martymill
Member



Joined: 2005/10/17
Posts: 48
Montreal, Canada

 Re:

[size=xx-small]"If people in America/Canada make that much money at entry level production jobs (not even a physical type one), with no responsibilities of major proportions why do we fall short and cheap of supporting ministers of the Gospel in many cases?"[/size]

Agreed brother, and I like your name.

A pastor friend of mine told me he made $25,000. My eyes welled up. How do you get by with 25k living in Montreal? Should you be punished for serving God? I don't want my pastor to get another job. I want my pastor to glow in the dark. I want to tremble with conviction every time he opens his mouth. I want his knees to look like mashed potatoes. I want him to pray 3+ hours every day.

Ok, now who wants me in their congregation? ;-)


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Martin Millette

 2005/11/15 8:04Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

I know of a congregation out here in California where the senior pastor was paid $70,000 a year. The elders dismissed him on the grounds of questionable personal life issues. This same pastor then has started a law suit in which he is sueing the congregation for over a million dollars.

I know of another pastor in an adjacent community of Little Saigon in the OC that is paid $18,000 a year. He has asked for an increase in pay but the church does not have enough money because they continue to sink money into the church building. They are buying new pews, carpets, and video projection systems to keep up with the Jones.

Money seems to always bring division and strife into the congregation.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2005/11/15 11:16Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I personally feel for my pastor. He does ok for a congregation of about 70, making about $30,000 a year, and lives in a old paid-for parsonage. However, because a few pillars in our church recently left it, taking their money with them, my pastor and his wife have recently taken up part-time jobs as substitute teachers in the public schools to better help make ends meet.

I really feel for them. I wish they did not have to do such. They make about $60 each a day when they sub for the school system. My pastor also plays a little bit in a blue-grass gospel band, which allows him to make about $100. My pastor and his wife have 2 kids, one in college, and a daughter that is 12. My pastor is one very much dedicated to prayer and study, and I hate to think that he is having to take away from such in order to help make ends meet. Granted, things might would not be so tight if our church didn't take annual trips to Uruguay S. America, of which he has to set aside about 5 grand for this work which God has called he and his family to do. Even then, things would be somewhat tight.


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Jimmy H

 2005/11/15 12:10Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

I think in repect of salary you would have to look at if you are paying the whole family or just one man. $30,000 for one person isn't bad, but for 2 combined it is.


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Josh Parsley

 2005/11/15 12:18Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re: Salary


If money is the motive for us to do what we do then we are nothing more than hirelings and shepherds that feed off the flock. It is God that supplies all our need. God help the person who won't do the commission because it doesn't pay enough.

I'd sooner look at the lives of Christians like John Wesley or George Muller who had fortunes go through their hands as they obeyed the commission that the Lord sent them into than the ones who live lavishly off the widows mite.

If the Lord blesses us with a large salary, we had better realize that we are responsible for what we do with that income. Whether we have a large or small income we will be held accountable for what we do with it. Every day we have the choice to live for self or to live for the Lord. When life is over, we will have been either a sheep on one hand or a goat on the other.

In Christ,
GaryE


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Gary Eckenroth

 2005/11/15 13:13Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
If money is the motive for us to do what we do then we are nothing more than hirelings and shepherds that feed off the flock. It is God that supplies all our need. God help the person who won't do the commission because it doesn't pay enough.


Amen brother.

"He is too wise a God to fustrate His purposes for lack of funds. And He can just as easily supply them ahead of time as afterwards, and He much prefers doing so." -Hudson Taylor.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/11/15 13:18Profile









 Re:

Quote:

repentcanada wrote:
I do not see how churches don't see the importance of pastors preaching and teaching strictly as their means of income. How else can they devote everything they have to their flock (and family)?



I think the reason why most of the church doesn't give, is because they've seen to many lie and use their own money for satan. Wether it was Benny Hinn or some no-named preacher across the street preaching from outside his house. I think the church (people of course) have been wounded and have trust issues when it comes to giving money. I think pastors/ministers need to PROVE to the people that they are real. Because so many have lied. It won't take much to 'prove' yourself. Just walk humbly before the Living God and the paper will come (money).

Quote:
If the Lord blesses us with a large salary, we had better realize that we are responsible for what we do with that income. Whether we have a large or small income we will be held accountable for what we do with it. Every day we have the choice to live for self or to live for the Lord. When life is over, we will have been either a sheep on one hand or a goat on the other.



Isn't there a scripture that says 'he who has much, there is much needed of him' Or when you have more 'things' you have more responsiblity to live up to.

edit:: I only make about 15,000 a year. maybe less. and i'm a telemarker

 2005/11/15 14:53
Sir_Edward
Member



Joined: 2005/10/19
Posts: 124
Michigan

 Re:

Martymill,

Quote:
Ok, now who wants me in their congregation?



I think I would definitely take you ;-) How much to you pray?

Truthfully I think much of what has been said has been good. There are three major problems with money in the church:

1) Pastors who view themsleves a white collor professionals who are worthy of a lot of money. Mercenaries for Hire who will be shocked when all that money they make hangs like an anchor around there neck as hey fall into hell. (Is that too strong?) I do not consider myself as white collar -- I am gold collar from God -- I will not tarnish it with materialism.

2) Churches who do not take care of their pastors and families becasue they have the bug of materialism. New buildings, renovations, technology all have been substituted for well -- PRAYER. I believe a building should look as nice as possible -- we are to be good stewards, but I personally think it is overdone -- I mean how many tracts would those new rose bushes along the side of the church buy? It is a terrible thing when people in the pew think that what attracts people is astetics instead of the Holy Spirit. Often in such cases the pastors salary is just another item for the chopping block to get that new sound system. Things over a person -- HMMMM?:-( I wonder how the early church did it without all that technology?

3) Debt -- Hey just read proverbs. When churches or pastor go into debt for stuff it is stupid. 'Godliness with CONTENTMENT is great gain.' If I was not in as much debt then I could afford to give much more (it pains me how stupid i have been) or take a pay cut for the church so they could have more for ministry or missions.

Now I love being full time because it allows me to do the two things I love the most all the time -- pray and preach the Word. But if someone sees these things as having no value I guess they would say I am overpaid, but if they do see the value of these things then most of them say I am underpaid. I personally just need enough to take care of my family as best as possible and devote my life to God. Wesley has become my hero of sorts when it comes to money. I want to die with one suit of clothes to wear to the grave, my Bible placed in my hand, and enough money to hire six guys from the street to be my pawpearers with six tracts to place in their hands. Everything else given to God.
To get their though is going to take some work.

Blessings.


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Ed Raby

 2005/11/15 18:29Profile





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