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 Re: Is it us or Jesus that will establish God's kingdom on earth


roadsign wrote:
Perhaps the better question to ask is "What is the kingdom of God?' What does it mean to seek first the Kingdom of God?

If you are really keen to understand these things, then I know you will be blessed by doing a word search and study on the Kingdom of God.

In the vineyard (please dont think of tornoto) we say 'The Kingdom came, is here, and is yet to come'. Past, Present, Future. Through our pastors message, instead of saying 'revival' he says 'the kingdom of God made manifest'(paraphrased, maybe taken out of context..idc) or 'the kingdom of God has broken through in the community'.

The KOG (Kingdom of God) is the same as the Kingdom of Heaven, Gospel and in some instances same as 'the word of God' (when the bible connotates to the gospel). But that is just the 'present' time. The kingdom is 'yet to come' and that is at His second coming.

If you start looking into 'what is the kingdom' you will, or should, say 'Revival'.

At least that's what I've gotten out of the somewhat exhaustive study i've did on it. (Still not over, about 50 hours to go, no time right now to complete it)

The Kingdom of God encounter, is a change, and revolution, if you will. Of a person, group or community.

;-) I hope that is on 8-)

 2005/11/12 19:49

Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924


this is a most interesting discussion indeed!
bro valadar set it off...

What I heard really disturbed me, he was saying that christians must use our influence in positions such as teachers, lawyers government officals, businessmen etc. To try to influence the world for Christ and to establish God's kingdom on earth, by using these means.

the Lord has been gracious enough to me to show me that the majority of people aren't really kingdom minded for starters. Christ said that His kingdom was not of this world and there it can't be built by anything of this world be it political influence, military might, conniving etc. people are concerned about building kingdoms alright, just not God's kingdom but personal ones which the Lord will demolish. People have become content with the way things are and have no interest in the paradise which Christ promised to the one thief on the cross. people have become intoxicated with this world to the extent that heaven is of no relevence. the thing is though that without having one's eyes fixed on heaven, one is running headlong for hell.

Christ's very return will usher in His kingdom which He himself shall rule for 1000 yrs with a rod of iron.

bro deltadom summed it up in 3 words...

I think Jesus

amen bro!

bro Ron said

In a nutshell these theologies teach that through the coming of Christ the believer has dominion over every area of life and as a result we should be reigning with Christ over the earth. The dominion of the earth is accomplished not only through prayer and evangelism, but through political process and social reformation. They also teach that Jesus cannot or will not return until the Church has taken dominion by gaining control of the earth's governmental and social institutions

I think one of the biggest dangers of these teachings is that it replaces the motivation for Godly living based on the blessed hope of Christ's return (Titus 2:13) with the task of reforming society. The proponents of these teachings admit themselves that taking dominion will take thousands of years.

and the word says in 2 peter chapt 3

[b]3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. [/b]

obedience to the Father in all things is what is required of us in order to build the kingdom.if God reigns in our hearts then we are obedient to Him. If only we would submit to God and repent of our prides...

brethren let us repent before God of our foolishnesses

Farai Bamu

 2005/11/13 0:23Profile

Joined: 2004/8/25
Posts: 17
South Africa


Amen brother Ironman. In short I have felt seeing the churches, all running around in programs trying to evangelise the world, trying to "hasten" the return of our Lord and Saviour Jesus.

When we know, don't we? That He will return at precisely the right time- in God's timing to return and take set up His kingdom on earth.

It also seems in this respect that some seem to think the effort of trying to get scores of people saved, will hasten His coming. Now we are called to preach the gospel, to the world, its's the Lord's commandment, but we seem to think that the Lord is about the numbers game i.e 1000s giving their lives, but the truth is the Lord wants those who fully surrender to Him.

On the contary don't you think it is interesting that the Lord sifted out the numbers till he had the people that He chose? See John 6:60

We are also told that no one can be His disciple unless we hate out lives that we lived in the natural and unless we take up our cross and follow Him daily. Luke 14:26 and Luke 14:27

So why look at the numbers and man's effort in trying to fufil the great commision may we repent from being busy with the Lord business and seek Him only because as the word says "seek first the kingdom and His righteousness"

B blessed my brethren in Christ



 2005/11/18 6:30Profile

Joined: 2003/9/13
Posts: 230
Goa, India

 Re: Enemies of the cross

Philippians 3:18-21 (The Message) There are many out there taking other paths, choosing other goals, and trying to get you to go along with them. I've warned you of them many times; sadly, I'm having to do it again. All they want is easy street. They hate Christ's Cross. But easy street is a dead-end street. Those who live there make their bellies their gods; belches are their praise; all they can think of is their appetites. But there's far more to life for us. We're citizens of high heaven! We're waiting the arrival of the Savior, the Master, Jesus Christ, who will transform our earthy bodies into glorious bodies like his own. He'll make us beautiful and whole with the same powerful skill by which he is putting everything as it should be, under and around him.

Paul wrote above passage about some of the believers of his time with weeping because they were enemies of the cross though they may wore a cross externally. If this can happen among the first century Christians, then how more will be the situation after 2000 years, since then. Oh how much early apostles vigorously taught the believers that, their citizenship is in heaven, to set their minds on things above, not on earthly things and they are pilgrims here on earth. Therefore they eagerly waited for their Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ and sought for heavenly blessings.

Oh how much, the majority of 21st century gospel preachers avoid cross (things which will offend the carnal mind) in their teaching, in order to get an impressive statistics and to make their message appealing to their hearers with sugar coating. Because of this, instead of producing sweet Christians who will be an aroma to God, they are producing spiritually-retarded Christians. No wonder! there is so much of shallowness in today's Christianity. Praise God, in every generation, God got a remnant, who bear the cross faithfully in their life and preaching.

In Him,

Shibu Clement

 2005/11/23 8:08Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Still not grasping who we are

Something telling in this ideal. A Christian 'evolution'? If there were a thousand perfect "Christ's" walking the earth the world would have them all put to death, not welcome them.

Beyond that [b]IF[/b] this ideal was to somehow happen who would end up taking the credit for it?
(Surely the argument would be that addendum tagged on the end "With the Lords help of course")

Everything that has every happened in the history of life that is of any worth happens by Gods invention and intervention.

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

[b]2Pe 3:7 -[/b]
[b]But the heavens and the earth which are now[/b] - [i]As they now exist. There is no difficulty here respecting what is meant by the word “earth,” but it is not so easy to determine precisely how much is included in the word “heavens.” It cannot be supposed to mean “heaven” as the place where God dwells; nor is it necessary to suppose that Peter understood by the word all that would now be implied in it, as used by a modern astronomer. The word is doubtless employed in a popular signification, referring to the “heavens as they appear to the eye;” and the idea is, that the conflagration would not only destroy the earth, but would change the heavens as they now appear to us. If, in fact, the earth with its atmosphere should be subjected to an universal conflagration, all that is properly implied in what is here said by Peter would occur[/i].

[b]By the same word[/b] - [i]Dependent solely on the will of God. He has only to give command, and all will be destroyed. The laws of nature have no stability independent of his will, and at his pleasure all things could be reduced to nothing, as easily as they were made. A single word, a breath of command, from one Being, a Being over whom we have no control, would spread universal desolation through the heavens and the earth. Notwithstanding the laws of nature, as they are called, and the precision, uniformity, and power with which they operate, the dependence of the universe on the Creator is as entire as though there were no such laws, and as though all were conducted by the mere will of the Most High, irrespective of such laws. In fact, those laws have no efficiency of their own, but are a mere statement of the way in which God produces the changes which occur, the methods by which He operates who “works all in all.” At any moment he could suspend them; that is, he could cease to act, or withdraw his efficiency, and the universe would cease to be.[/i]

[b]Are kept in store[/b] - [i]Greek, “Are treasured up.” The allusion in the Greek word is to anything that is treasured up, or reserved for future use. The apostle does not say that this is the only purpose for which the heavens and the earth are preserved, but that this is one object, or this is one aspect in which the subject may be viewed. They are like treasure reserved for future use[/i].

[b]Reserved unto fire[/b] - [i]Reserved or kept to be burned up. See the notes at 2Pe_3:10. The first mode of destroying the world was by water, the next will be by fire. That the world would at some period be destroyed by fire was a common opinion among the ancient philosophers, especially the Greek Stoics. What was the foundation of that opinion, or whence it was derived, it is impossible now to determine; but it is remarkable that it should have accorded so entirely with the statements of the New Testament. The authorities in proof that this opinion was entertained may be seen in Wetstein, in loc. See Seneca, N. Q. iii. 28; Cic. N. D. ii. 46; Simplicius in Arist. de Coelo i. 9; Eusebius, P. xv. 18. It is quite remarkable that there have been among the pagan in ancient and modern times so many opinions that accord with the statements of revelation - opinions, many of them, which could not have been founded on any investigations of science among them, and which must, therefore, have been either the result of conjecture, or handed down by tradition. Whatever may have been their origin, the fact that such opinions prevailed and were believed, may be allowed to have some weight in showing that the statements in the Bible are not improbable[/i].

[b]Against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men[/b] - [i]The world was destroyed by a flood on account of the wickedness of its inhabitants. It would seem from this passage that it will be destroyed by fire with reference to the same cause; at least, that its destruction by fire will involve the perdition of wicked men. It cannot be inferred from this passage that the world will be as wicked at the general conflagration as it was in the time of Noah; but the idea in the mind of Peter seems to have been, that in the destruction of the world by fire the perdition of the wicked will be involved, or will at that time occur. It also seems to be implied that the fire will accomplish an important agency in that destruction, as the water did on the old world. It is not said, in the passage before us, whether those to be destroyed will be living at that time, or will be raised up from the dead, nor have we any means of determining what was the idea of Peter on that point. All that the passage essentially teaches is, that the world is reserved now with reference to such a consummation by fire; that is, that there are elements kept in store that may be enkindled into an universal conflagration, and that such a conflagration will be attended with the destruction of the wicked.[/i]

Barnes' Notes

Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which will be revealed [i]toward us[/i].
Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager expectation [b]for the children of God to be revealed[/b].
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the [u]creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of decay into the liberty of the glory of the children of God[/u].
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 Not only so, but ourselves also, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, [b]waiting for adoption, the redemption of our body[/b].

It seems what gets lost in all this is what is meant and by what effort the "revealing" is to take place. When even the so called 'best' of us can't even come to terms with many things to think by joining forces "we" are going to bring "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven" is to miss a phenomenal point, that we really do not know who we are.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Mike Balog

 2005/11/23 9:24Profile

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