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Joined: 2004/8/25
Posts: 17
South Africa

 Is it us or Jesus that will establish God's kingdom on earth

Greeting my fellow brothers and sisters. On Wednesday I attended a mens breakfast where a transmisson of a guy named Ian McKellar who is part of NCMI was preaching.

What I heard really disturbed me, he was saying that christians must use our influence in positions such as teachers, lawyers government officals, businessmen etc. To try to influence the world for Christ and to establish God's kingdom on earth, by using these means.

Now Jesus our Lord says "That my kingdom is not of this world" John 18:6 and "The Kingdoms of this world are become the
kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ and he shall reign forever and ever." Revelations 11:15

So why are some trying to establish His kingdom?When His kingdom will only come, when He returns and not by man made effort.

Or perhaphs some have become tired of waiting for the promise and are trying to turn earth into heaven.

What are you your guys thought?

Always the best in Christ



 2005/11/11 5:46Profile

Joined: 2004/10/29
Posts: 335
The Netherlands

 Re: Is it us or Jesus that will establish God's kingdom on earth

Now Jesus our Lord says "That my kingdom is not of this world" John 18:6

my thoughts are quite simple in this, this world is fallen, broken and in sin. What is of flesh, is flesh, but which is of Spirit is everlasting.

This world is carnal, what can we do about carnality?

[i]"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;"[/i]
[b]Rev 21:1[/b]

This earth will be no more one day, so than i don't understand the point that people want to establish it here on this earth. Sorry to say it sounds quite silly to me, when they want it here and now.

That are my thoughts on this subject [smile]

Be blessed bro, stay close to The Living Word!

your bro in Christ,



 2005/11/11 6:10Profile

Joined: 2004/10/29
Posts: 335
The Netherlands

 Re: Sermon Illustration


What is carnality? According to the Greek dictionary, it means to have the nature and characteristics of the flesh (or more simply, it means "fleshly"). What, then , is the flesh? Sometimes it refers to the whole material part of man (1 Corinthians 15:39; Hebrews 5:7), and based on this meaning, carnal sometimes relates to material things like money (Romans 15:27) or to the opposite of our weapons of spiritual warfare (2 Corinthians 10:4). But the word flesh also has a metaphorical sense when it refers to our disposition to sin and to oppose or omit God in our lives. The flesh is characterized by works that include lusts and passions (Galatians 5:19-24; I John 2:16); it can enslave (Romans 7:25); and in it is nothing good (Romans 7:18). Based on this meaning of the word flesh, to be carnal means to be characterized by things that belong to the unsaved life (Ephesians 2:3).

Charles Ryrie, So Great Salvation, Victor Books, 1989, pp. 59-60.

For truth is precious and divine,

Too rich a pearl for carnal swine.

Samuel Butler

from the [url=]Sermon Illustrated I[/url] here on SI.


 2005/11/11 7:14Profile

Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164


It seems to me that everyone wants to "work for the cause of Christ" every way possible except the main things he called us to do: Pray and Preach the Gospel.

Josh Parsley

 2005/11/11 9:31Profile

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776

 Is it us or Jesus that will establish God's kingdom on earth

This is the same question that the disciples were occupied with. They just couldn't understand that Jesus kingdom was not of this earth. The Jews missed Christ entirely because they were expecting an earthly, national ruler.

Perhaps the better question to ask is "What is the kingdom of God?' What does it mean to seek first the Kingdom of God?

If you are really keen to understand these things, then I know you will be blessed by doing a word search and study on the Kingdom of God.

Then you will also see that there is a lot of heresy regarding this issue - just like there was in Jesus day.
Many religions are looking for an earthly rule: Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, a lot of Protestant brnaches, etc..
the topic of "Mellenium" has been discussed in this forum not too long ago.


 2005/11/11 11:21Profile

Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1822
Hemel Hempstead

 Re: Is it us or Jesus that will establish God's kingdom on earth

I think Jesus

Dominic Shiells

 2005/11/11 11:30Profile

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2741
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Is it us or Jesus that will establish God's kingdom on earth

This sounds like what is known as either Dominion theology or Kingdom Now theology. If you do a search on the web for those terms you will come up with plenty of info.

In a nutshell these theologies teach that through the coming of Christ the believer has dominion over every area of life and as a result we should be reigning with Christ over the earth. The dominion of the earth is accomplished not only through prayer and evangelism, but through political process and social reformation. They also teach that Jesus cannot or will not return until the Church has taken dominion by gaining control of the earth's governmental and social institutions.

I think one of the biggest dangers of these teachings is that it replaces the motivation for Godly living based on the blessed hope of Christ's return (Titus 2:13) with the task of reforming society. The proponents of these teachings admit themselves that taking dominion will take thousands of years.

In Christ,


Ron Halverson

 2005/11/11 11:48Profile

 Re: Is it us or Jesus that will establish God's kingdom on earth


Thanks for reminding me of these terms. It's a long time since I heard this idea although I realise it's never gone away.

I think one of the biggest dangers of these teachings is that it replaces the motivation for Godly living

The only sense I can make of many times (not all) that the word 'earth' is used, is by applying it to my own body. This is the 'earth' in which God's kingdom is to have dominion for sure - from the inside, outwards. I see 'victory over sin' as a type of 'possessing the land' (Joshua-style) and I certainly don't think we should cop out for an 'after death' option. Victory is [i][b]now[/b][/i] or it is not at all.

These thoughts fit in with these scriptures. (Note, I am not saying this is what these scriptures mean in an absolute sense, but, they encourage me to believe that [i]personal victory now[/i] is vitally important.

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: [b]but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him[/b]; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

2 Thessalonians 1
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 [b]When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, [u]and to be admired in all them that believe[/u][/b] (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of goodness, and the work of faith with power:
12 That [b]the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him[/b], according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 2005/11/11 16:32

 Re: Is it us or Jesus that will establish God's kingdom on earth

Continuing the truth that we are made from the dust of the ground and adding to it that the Word became Flesh, Jesus Himself is also 'earth'... which then makes much more sense of verses such as these:

Colossians 1

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 and he is before all things, [b]and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church[/b]: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; [b]that [u]in all he[/u] might have [u]the preeminence[/u][/b]. 19 For it pleased [the Father] that [b]in him should all fulness dwell[/b]; 20 and, having made peace through [u]the blood[/u] of his cross, by him [u]to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, whether things [b]in earth[/b][/u], or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 [b]in the body of his flesh[/b] through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, which was preached to every creature which is under heaven;

Can you [i]see[/i] the 'earth' link beginning to shape up?

 2005/11/11 18:51

 Re: Is it us or Jesus that will establish God's kingdom on earth

This thought is continued in Colossians 3.

5 Mortify therefore [u]your members which are upon [b]the earth[/b][/u]; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7 in the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 and have put on the new [man], which [b]is renewed in knowledge [u]after the image of him[/u] that created him[/b]:


Ephesians 2
1 And you, [b]who [u]were dead[/u] in trespasses and sins[/b]; 2 wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 among whom also [b]we all had our conversation [u]in times past[/u][/b] in the lusts of our flesh, [b]fulfilling the desires of the flesh[/b] and of the mind; [b]and were by nature the children of wrath[/b], even as others.

4 [b]But God[/b],

Please also compare Leviticus 18:1 - 5 and 24 - 30, linking it with Revelation 3:14 - 17, especially noting the way God threatened to deal in the Old Testament, with an identical threat in the New.

Despite Jesus's apparent silence on the content of Leviticus 18, let us never forget, He [b]is[/b] THE WORD (made Flesh) and seeks to establish His own Life [i][b]in us[/b][/i] [u]in our experience[/u].

Under the Old Covenant, God expected physical obedience on these points [i]without the Spirit's help[/i]. It is impossible to cut Christians who [i]have[/i] the help of the Holy Spirit, any slack at all, regarding the sins Paul brings to the attention of his Gentile audience. Victory over sin is basic to Christianity. This is the establishment of Christ's kingdom on earth.

Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, [b]the kingdom of God is within you[/b].

Romans 8
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, the redemption of [b]our body[/b].

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead [b]dwell [u]in you[/u], he[/b] [i][NB Eph 1:19, 20][/i] that raised up Christ from the dead [b]shall also quicken your mortal bodies [u]by his Spirit that dwelleth in you[/u][/b].

The only thought which can be added to the above is this: [i][b]if[/b][/i] [u]all[/u] the people in the world were victorious Christians, there would be no need for civil institutions through which His kingdom should be brought to bear on anyone from the outside (as it were).

 2005/11/12 6:49

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