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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Evolution Trial Arguments End

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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK


In evolution theory the Robustus branch dies out; more specifically they were hunted to extinction and eaten by the hunting tools welding Australeopithicine Afarensis. Then later the Neandertals break off from AAs and migrate north. After that, they either die out or they are genetically assimilated into the rest of humanity.

I have been reading evolutionary theory for some time now but it has not lost its power to leave me 'open mouthed'.

'they were hunted to extinction and eaten'? Does someone have a photograph of this? or have we found a diary? It couldn't be speculation could it? not when expressed with such certainty?

Ron Bailey

 2005/11/9 6:57Profile


There are Robustus bones found having cut marks on them, as if they had been butchered.


 2005/11/9 10:00


"The philosophical commitment to the irrelevancy of God is the only feature that ultimately distinguishes Evolution from Intelligent Design."

Charles Darwin believed in God.


 2005/11/9 10:03

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


Charles Darwin believed in God.

To be clear evolution does not technically deny the existance of God, although neo-darwinian leaders like Dawkins and Gould certainly implied this. Evolution denies God's relevance and participation in his own creation. Evolution is a godless process. If it wasn't, then it would by default become Intelligent Design.

As soon as you admit that blind nature can not animate minerals into life all on it's own you are admitting the plausibility of Intelligent Design.

This is why I can't really understand why evolutionists, especially Christian evolutionists, are so vehemently opposed to Intelligent Design. In fact, I would have thought that creationists would have been more opposed to ID is as much evolution as it is Special Creationism. Apparently evolutionists are more fundamentalist in their beliefs then many Christians are. ;-)


Mike Compton

 2005/11/9 10:08Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Endless speculation

Had a hunch this was going to be back up again this morning...

Mere men! There was almost a bit of honesty eking through in the mention of evolutionary [i]theory[/i] until it keeps coming out as fact.

Does someone have a photograph of this? or have we found a diary? It couldn't be speculation could it? not when expressed with such certainty?

It's just absurd and would even go as far to say that even the opposite rationale goes off into all kinds of the same style rationalizing, speculating, theorizing ... [i]Australeopithicine Afarensis[/i]. Now we are to believe scientists to give us explanations by slapping a goofy name on a speculation and making that 'fact'? Or To call the God of the universe an [i]Intelligent Designer[/i]? This may be a deep dark secret but have to wonder if it has been forgotten that there is a canopy of stars above their heads that declares the glory of Him who created all things. By happenstance this morning:

[i]Ecc 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all[/i].

Is it not miracle enough to realize that you sit here breathing and typing and call to mind...

[i]Ecc 12:1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;
Ecc 12:2 While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:
Ecc 12:3 In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened,
Ecc 12:4 And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low;
Ecc 12:5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecc 12:7 [b]Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it[/b].[/i]

What was answered Job after the long explanations, chapter after chapter? Or was this too mere metaphor? This want of stripping out all the miraculous, denying what was written because we must have a 'logical' explanation, again what was answered Job? And what was Job's response? Just the very beginning of response from God Himself ought to be enough;

[i]Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.[/i]

This picking and choosing, both sides attempting in vain to 'explain' everything from Noah's flood to disbelieving the miracles wrought through the Lord Jesus Christ or at best giving some man made reasoning as to how they were preformed. Have we forgotten the element of belief?

[i]Heb 11:6 But without [b]faith[/b] it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By [b]faith[/b] Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by [b]faith[/b].[/i]

Interesting tie there with Noah's '[i]metaphor[/i]'. There was a point awhile back from someone making mention of a comment from David Ravenhill and what I do recall was he said something to the effect of "The Lord could have created the world a million years old for all I care". I would concur. Do we really think that there is going to be some kind of end to all this speculation, that we might convince ourselves that we are 'intelligent' enough to do what Job couldn't do even [i]after[/i] he was practically waylaid by that which most likely not a one of us in our comfy confines will ever experience...

Ah, but we have 'evolved' since then....

Rubbish. Pure rubbish. I am so glad the Lord choose stupid fisherman and tax collectors to put a burning fire of His Spirit into, took a very intelligent, zealous Pharisee and blinded him, extracted out all the things he counted as...

[i]Phi 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Phi 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Phi 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Phi 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Phi 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Phi 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.[/i]

You can go on attempting to dissect Gods word, His scriptures, all you want, but they are stuck together as sure as the testimony of our Lords own words, one context with one central purpose;

[i]Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 [u]Search the scriptures[/u]; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of [b]me[/b].[/i]

I know there is a rebuttal coming and another explanation about throwing our brains in the trash. It's old and it's tired and the failure rate to convince anyone doesn't dissuade one iota... But consider this. Will you continue to plant spurious things into young minds of the faith? Cast doubts upon the scripture and forget these admonitions and sentiment;

[i]Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Tit 1:9 holding to the faithful word which is according to the teaching, that he may be able to exhort in the sound doctrine, and to convict the gainsayers.
Tit 1:10 For there are many unruly men, vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision,
Tit 1:11 whose mouths must be stopped; men who overthrow whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
Tit 1:12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, idle gluttons.
Tit 1:13 This testimony is true. For which cause reprove them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,
Tit 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish fables, and [u]commandments of men who turn away from the truth[/u].[/i]

Mike Balog

 2005/11/9 10:32Profile

Joined: 2004/5/25
Posts: 94

 Re: Evolution Trial Arguments End

aright here is the bomb that was dropped by my preacher on this belief. even if you wanna say six days is a thousand years or a million years or a billion years you cannot believe in evolution and stand on new testament theology. and this is what he brought up.
Evolution says that the first organism began, it reproduced and died, another began and reproduced and died. so on and so forth a cycle of life and death that we are used to looking at. The only problem is DEATH DID NOT EXIST B4 SIN. and evolution says countless millions of organisms died before the first man even came on the scene.
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—
1 Corinthian 15:21
For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.

anyways that's what i've heard.
be blessed


 2005/11/9 10:40Profile

Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah


Does believing in evolution bring you closer to God? Don't you just want to know Christ and nothing else?

Eli Brayley

 2005/11/9 11:16Profile

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK


This is disputed. Most think he lost his faith in God when he lost his daughter. Even Christian apologists have admitted that the lack of positive atheistic statements from Darwin may have come from his reticence in upsetting his believing wife. Stephen Hawking had a similar path.

Ron Bailey

 2005/11/9 11:40Profile

Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164


This is from a PM Bubbaguy sent me showing me 'common points' with Genesis and evolution. With permission I have posted it here:

"the earth was formless and empty" -- Original state of universe is a void

"Let there be Light" -- Big Bang releases Radiant Energy

Night and Day are divided -- Planetary systems develop

Separation of the Waters -- Comets deposit water on earth

Waters gathered into one place, land emerges -- Pangea

The "earth" brings forth life -- Complex earth chemistry begets life

Plants, sea animals, cattle -- Increasing complexity of life forms

Man given dominion -- Protoman emerges as dominant animal

"every seed bearing plant for food" -- Protoman is an herbivore

We eat forbidden fruit -- Scavenging of meat begins

Increased pain in childbirth -- Running requires narrower hips

Eating on the plains -- Forests shrink, nomadic behavior begins

God gives us animal skins to wear -- Transition to hunting

Cain and Abel -- Erectus/Australeopithicine dualism

Cain kills Abel -- Australeopithicines disappear

Cain, the restless wanderer -- Erectus migration into Asia, Europe

Seth, Man begins to "call" upon the Lord -- Neanderthals, speech appears

Noah and family survive flood -- Small group, out of Africa theory

Noah plants a vineyard -- Agrarian communities begin

Josh Parsley

 2005/11/9 12:18Profile

Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164



First off, where does death (which is caused by sin) originate from? God or man's rebellion?

Edit: I changed the sentance above to say originate instead of come.

Josh Parsley

 2005/11/9 12:19Profile

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